Big Thunder, July 1979
Today I have more scans, courtesy of the Mysterious Benefactor - all of these feature the soon-to-open Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. The Wildest Ride in the Wilderness! These are dated "July 1979", and the ride debuted on September 2, 1979.
Chugging past on the Mark Twain gives us a nice elevated look at the impressive rock formations. Some call them "hoodoos", but that's a very silly word. I would have been itching to ride this, based on this view of the ride! A little bit of the repurposed Rainbow Ridge can just be seen if you look carefully.
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Our photographer zoomed in on the main load building - the smoke from that chimney shows that there are some signs of life over yonder - though some of the foreground "smoke" might be steam from the Mark Twain. Not sure. Hey, there's Cinderella's Castle!
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From ground-level the minarets of stone (not hoodoos!) look even more splendid. A sign blocks the entrance, and on that sign is what I assume is concept artwork, or else it is photos of somebody's kids eating pasketti.
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The dreaded queue, extending way out to here! Has this area been redone between 1979 and now? The current line twists around various rocks and mining equipment, maybe that part is out of frame.
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And... one final look from the outer queue. Man, those rocks are so convincing that it would be easy to forget that they were made by talented craftspeople. Hey, I have a question about those wood-rail fences! Are they actually cast resin? Or are they resin-treated wood? Or something else altogether? Asking for a friend.
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THANK YOU, Mysterious Benefactor!
21 comments:
Major-
Oh... the anticipation - It's as thick as blackstrap molasses-! (Talk about mixing your metaphors, or something like that-!)
Thanks, Major.
1) Ah, I see the same three guys standing at the railing that we saw in the previous set by the Mysterious Mr. B... At least I think they're the same guys. The color looks a little wonky; all pink and green (with blue sky). Almost like it was hand tinted. I guess that's the Pirate Ship peeking over the trees.
3) Man, those kids must be COVERED in pasketti! It looks like a whole mountain of it. There's one of those wood-grained trashcans on the left edge.
Thanks, Mysterious Benefactor. And thanks, Major.
I’ve mentioned many times that I was enthralled with Big Thunder since I was 5 …. And these pictures bring back the excitement I had at age 10-11 when these pictures were taken. I would imagine the attraction’s sequences compared to some early Disney News articles and small “coming soon” images in guidebooks and flyers …
The coming soon billboard in the second to the last image features a reproduction of Clem Hall’s Big Thunder Runnaway Railroad concept painting. Clem was a master at pictorial overviews. Clem also painted the master guides for the Haunted Mansion stretching portraits that replaced the cartoony versions Elmer Plummer did when the attraction opened. c
Clem Hall was a trained portrait artist from England who came to Hollywood as a studio artist ….. his last Hollywood film before coming to WED was “Rosemary’s Baby” .
The coming soon attraction poster next to Clem Hall’s Big Thunder overview is a screenprinted poster that was designed by graphic imagineer Robert Cala. It was his first art directed project at WED. Because there were so many delays with the opening of Big Thunder there are many variations of this poster as the changing opening dates had to be screened over the obsolete ones. The poster was also used for Florida’s Big Thunder Coming Soon billboards as well .
Thank you Major and Mysterious Benefactor!!
I remember my excitement for Big Thunder at this time, and even for a few years before this. Because I had written a letter to DL's PR dept. earlier, asking about Big Thunder, they later sent me a "form" letter stating, "Because you previously expressed interest in Big Thunder, we felt you would want to know........" Basically it was saying that the opening originally was supposed to be in June, but had been rescheduled for September. The letter was postmarked March 28, 1979.
Major, that queue in photo #4 is the extended queue, or the queue before the main queue." It eventually leads down below those rocks in front of the loading station, and then you start to see the mining equipment.
Thank you, M.B. and M.P.!
”Some call them ‘hoodoos,’ but that's a very silly word.”. Charles Nelson Reilly would agree, but he did the job and took the paycheck anyway. You gotta put food on the table somehow.
Amazing how you can see Cinderella Castle from the deck of the Bayou Belle. I figured distance and the curvature of the Earth would make that impossible, but the conditions must have been just right to refract light from Florida.
I find it interesting that they have the smoke generator (or maybe it’s a steam generator) on that smokestack running two months before the attraction opened. That’s a nice emphasis on “show” that helps to build anticipation and makes the scene blend in with the rest of Frontierland. I wonder if that would be done today. I’m also wondering if that smokestack even smokes today…or if modern guests would even notice.
Somebody should make a “Disneyland Show” app that digitally inserts all the things that they are too cheap to repair or keep operating like smoky smokestacks or intact freight houses. That way guests could stay glued to their phones but still enjoy Disneyland as it was intended…sort of.
And now I’m thinking seriously that it actually would be cool if there was a “Vintage Disneyland View” app that took into account your lat/long location using the phone’s GPS that allowed you to see what that spot looked like in a selected year in the past. You’d have to build an entire Digital Disneyland using vintage photography and edumacated guesses, then map it to physical positions in the real world. It would be a huge, multi-year project, and would probably have to be a labor of love as the return on investment probably wouldn’t be that great, but man, would that be cool.
Something much easier would be to map existing photos to precise geographic locations, then having an app that would offer you some of the best views of that scene when you were actually near that location. Like indexing the best of GDB or Daveland with coordinates, then adding a link to those sites “if you would like to see more vintage Disneyland, click here.” I hate to drive people to their phones more, but it would be a way to get people who are tied to their phones and don’t know anything about Disneyland’s history interested. I guess Disney could do this with some of their own vast collection of official images as part of the Disneyland app.
Thanks again, Major & MB!
Thanks M's B and P, the first photo sums up a lot of Disneyland's appeal; it looks like a model train layout done large. Beautifully crafted and detailed as the show is, there was some disappointment on first riding it. It had to slow down and chug up so many hills again that the effect was coitus interruptus; in my mental redesign I sank the base thirty feet below ground level so the trains could keep zipping on faster till the last lift through the earthquake and avalanche.
I rode it in September 1979 and remember in the first scene there was a swarm of bats flying overhead, as promised in the advertising. They had vanished by a subsequent visit and were never seen by me again; a mini version of the Hat Box Ghost legend.
And speaking of steam valves turned off, few people know or recall that when the New Fantasyland opened ( yikes, 40 years ago on 5/25/'83 ), the hell scene in Mr Toad's Wild Ride was brimming with steam; the devil dragon blew a plume of steam right at riders, and steam issued from the chimney pots above the attraction exterior. Either due to maintenance issues, or stinginess, or both , those effects were discontinued ages ago.
Thanks MB and Major, put me down as another anticipator of BTRR. It wasn’t till a few rides later that I began to miss what was lost. Disney should just dump the silly “haunted” schtick since the only place it happens is in the DLRR spiel.
That’s a picture of a pig looking in a refrigerator, Major.
Also, that’s the original overflow queue, at some point the queue was redesigned and the themed part was lengthened somewhat. The area seen in the photo is now used only in extremity. In my recent visits, the crowd rarely extends beyond the “beginning”. I think it’s one of the best designed queues in the Park, considering the cramped space. I can’t say waiting there is a joy, but there’s something to look at, and it’s fairly shady.
Chuck, that’s a brilliant idea, I’ll get my best people on that. Also, the smoke generators produce marijuana vape, since tobacco is all but illegal.
Stefano, I remember the steam, but not till you mentioned it. I bet it caused corrosion issues from the damp.
JG
I still love BTMRR, even though I've only ridden the WDW version, which as everybody knows, is backwards from the DL version and therefore makes you go back in time.
Of course the original mine train coaster is The Runaway Mine Train at 6FOT, which dives under the lake as it's climax. Cool stuff, but they've ruined the theming as of late with huge coasters rising up on every side of it and removing water features and landscaping. Sad. Very sad.
Anyway, nice pictures today!
Major, I just saw your question about the railing materials.
I think the original rails might have been wood, but most if not all now are cast resin. Maybe Mike Cozart can tell us more.
Also, noticing in photo 2, the distinctly out-of-theme water cooler keg, in bright yellow and red. Possibly for the CM's laboring in the heat in those frontier leather outfits? Maybe this is for the construction crews if the ride isn't open yet. I'm sure Davy Crockett would have had a wooden cask, or even a deerskin water bag. Now it would be some kind of plastic limited-edition drink cup that you can buy on your phone for $30.
JG
The BTM Depot smoke effect does still work off and on… a friend and I talked about it while noticing it a few months ago during the mid afternoon but I also specifically noticed it not working in early April in the early evening… I’m not sure if temperature affects it’s visibility. I know in early renderings patterns and puffs of smoke are shown emanating from the chimney pots and smoke stacks of New Fantasyland … if this was ever an actual functioning detail it must not have lasted very long …. And must have been abandoned many decades ago. The “coughing demon” in Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride “smoke-blast” has always been an effect that sporadically worked ..also in recent years the extreme temperature in the finale room has been reduced.
There’s always been lots of myths and fun “last-minute” design decision stories from some imagineers regarding the inclusion of a Disneyland Big Thunder Mt. Railroad ….but it shows up in several Disneyland master plans and expansion layouts starting in 1972… this long predates the Discovery Bay concept … in fact it’s possible that the separate Thunder Mesa & Big Thunder Runnaway Railroad may have first been proposed at Disneyland and NOT Walt Disney World as the legend is told … as both show up as two separate attractions on a Disneyland expansion plan layout from 1972 and Bear Country was underway …. A photograph map of Disneyland with proposed expansions shown in scroll-saw cut plexi shapes of the 1972 master plan was placed on display to the public at Disneyland in 1973 when “Disneyland Showcase - A Legacy for the future “ opened . There was at least one change/update of this plan that added a “Island at the top of the world” attraction next to a Fantasia attraction - both in Fantasyland before expansion plans with Discovery Bay show up and the Western River Expedition at Disneyland is omitted . I think that’s the disconnect of why Thunder Mesa and The Western River Expedition wasn’t built in Florida and Marc Davis was pissed with Tony Baxter about its “death” once Disneyland decided to pass on Western River Expedition in favor of Discovery Bay , it was decided the Western River project was gonna be too expensive to build …. Just once .
The posts were fiberglass around a aluminum pipe … The rails were real wood … they hade a lacquer on them to protect them from wear … the wood has a give that helps the railing withstand leaning and pushing and guests sitting . It’s possible now the wood has been replaced with a synthetic.
@ Stefano-
"... the hell scene in Mr Toad's Wild Ride was brimming with steam; the devil dragon blew a plume of steam right at riders..."
You bet I remember those effects-! [Thru a CM] I had a Press Pass for the opening of the New Fantasyland, and rode Mr. Toad several times during the Press preview window. Yes, it was instant heat and condensation on all surfaces - especially eyewear - upon entering "hell" (or would that be 'Hades' in Disney parlance...)
Nanook, I wish I could remember the first time I saw (or rode) Big Thunder, but I know I was impressed with the way it looked! It was only much later when I thought about the loss of the Mine Train Through Nature’s Wonderland.
JB, yes, those are the same three guys, I probably should have just shared that photo in the last MB installment! The color IS a little off, but that happens with old film. I’m often surprised when the Disney Archives shares images on social media - how often they are faded or magenta to some degree. Meanwhile, if you’ve ever seen a child eat paskettis, it is not pretty.
Mike Cozart, I’m sure this would have been when I was still getting “Disney News” in the mail, and so I’d seen articles and concept art for this upcoming ride. At that age, I was all about roller coaster (though of course I loved the great Disneyland attractions that were NOT coasters). Clem Hall’s name has come up here recently, sounds like somebody needs to do a writeup on him! Whoa, I wonder what he did on “Rosemary’s Baby”? Any idea why there were so many delays for Big Thunder? Were they technical issues? Or did it just take longer for a multitude of reasons?
TokyoMagic!, you and your letters! I picture you (wearing little Ben Franklin glasses) at a pile of parchments. “My dear sirs…”. Of course you sealed the letter with sealing wax and your signet ring. Thank you for the info about the extended queue!
Chuck, somewhere on this blog you will find a photo of Charles Nelson Reilly as Hoodoo, the greatest and most evil wizard ever (sorry, Sauron). And now you have learned that there is no curvature to the Earth, because it is flat. If it was round, we would all be sliding all over the place! I do wonder what that “smoke” is, and hope it is steam, and not actual smoke made from bear grease and hair clippings from the local barber shops. I’ve had a similar thought about some sort of Disneyland app that would allow guests to see what the park looked like in ye olden days, but perhaps the market for such a thing would be miniscule. “I just like Stitch and Baymax!”. Chuck, you need to start a “Go Fund Me” page for your Disneyland app! You can design it yourself, how hard can it be?
Stefano, ah, now I’m thinking I should have done a “tilt-shift” version of that first photo. But I did it recently, and didn’t want that trick to become old! Too late? Hmmm, a swarm of bats, sounds very “Indy”, I don’t remember that one, though I have no doubt that it was there (and vanished, like many Indy effects). Gosh, I love the idea of all that steam in “Toad”, why is it that all the fun details always get scuttled??
JG, see my comment to Nanook… I was so excited about any new attraction that I didn’t even consider that we’d lost a true masterpiece of Imagineering when it came to “Nature’s Wonderland”. So beautiful, there will never be anything like it again. That is, until I win the Lottery (any day now!) and build my exact replica on my 25,000 acre estate. The queue for Big Thunder is fine, but as I mentioned before, it was grating to find myself not moving for 8 or 10 minutes at a time while hundreds of Lightening (!) Lane people passed us. Other guests near me were complaining too, so it wasn’t just me. I’ll bet ladies with perms complained about the steam.
Stu29573, the WDW version of Big Thunder looks pretty neat, I appreciate that they are different. I think you might have mentioned the Six Flags Over Texas Runaway Mine Train before, though I forgot that it dove under the lake. Does’t the Big Thunder in Paris do a similar thing?
JG, it’s so funny, while waiting in some of the queues, I found myself really studying the railings. I think you’re right, they are probably resin, possibly with a metal substructure. Wow, good eye on the water cooler, I would have never even noticed it. I will buy two of those plastic limited-edition cups, one to use, and one to save forever and ever to give to my grandchildren.
Mike Cozart, because I was waiting for the line to get a bit shorter, I did not really pay attention to Big Thunder until the evening, but I’m pretty sure that the smoke effect was not working. As I said to JG, I had a lot of time to look at stuff. The “coughing demon”?? What in the world? Never heard of that one! Thank you for all of the interesting info about the various planned (or not?) versions for Big Thunder. So often I’ve read about wonderful ideas that were never done due to budget, which is understandable, but still a bummer. As much as I like that airship from “Island At the Top of the World”, it’s hard for me to imagine an attraction based on that movie. It wasn’t great! Though the title is pretty hard to beat. I feel like Tony was sort of between a rock and a hard place in regards to the Western River Expedition - I’m sure he would have loved to have that built just the way Marc Davis dreamed, AND have his own Discovery Bay project come to fruition in Anaheim.
Mike Cozart, thank you! Real wood makes sense for the reason you stated, I just thought that they would have to endure so much abuse from guests. Maybe they are replaced on a regular basis. Or as you suggested, perhaps they are now made of Gigawood™.
Nanook, savvy guests would have brought hotdogs on sticks with them, the steam would cook them to perfection. DELICIOUS.
It wasn’t till Majors recent response that I got the Hoodoo / Lidsville joke. I was in deep in Frontierland - Big Thunder mode.
I’ve been building a version of that app since the mid90’s - yep, longer than apps, or screens to see them on, have existed.
Apple’s new headset should be a nice upgrade from hyper-links embedded in a photoshopped map on a cathode-ray monitor, but it worked.
MS
Major, I’ve already designed it. The hard part is writing the code to make the 1s and 0s do what you want them to.
MS, good grief! The only thing big enough to lug that thing around with you would have been a stroller.
Mike Cozart, and you calll yourself the biggest Charles Nelson Reilly fan?!? Disgraceful! ;-)
MS, I think I have especially wished something like that fictional Disneyland app existed ever since some smart phones could display "augmented reality" (I think that was the term?), as if a T-rex was standing next to you or some such silliness.
Chuck, you just have to sit down and talk to those 1s and 0s and make them understand! Channel Atticus Finch, perhaps.
Major: I just looked at you twice over the tops of my eyeglasses by lowering the frames on my nose … then I fluffed up my ascot.
"How's that for a topper?!"
I can't believe that Lidsville (or HR Puffnstuff for that matter) was children's programming.
Mike Cozart, HA!
Dean Finder, so many of those Sid and Marty Krofft shows were weird as heck!
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