Sunday, June 06, 2021

Flower Market, August 1965

Well, here we are; it's the Flower Market, over on West Center Street. You know it well by now! Full of faux flowers, it was something people liked to look at, though I have no idea if that many cloth and plastic bouquets were actually sold each day. Grandma (to the left) looks pretty pleased, though that might be because she's seen the sign for the restrooms. I always like a look at the cheerful red and white Carnation truck.

Luckily, interested customers could have their bunches of flowers shipped home, so that they didn't have to carry them around for the rest of the day. From this angle it appears that the Carnation truck had its hood open so that interested dads could check out its Model T (or maybe Model A?) engine. 


On Friday, GDB friend JG shared a photo of himself sitting on Ariel's throne. Another GDB friend, David W., added Sebastian, Ariel's friend (and mentor?). He seems pretty happy to see JG! 

I guess the cat is out of the bag already, since you can see Sebastian's face in the first example, but David made a funny variation where he is incognito, just like JG. THANKS, DAVID W.!


Nanook said...

Interesting to see shots of the Flower Mart from this 'reverse angle', looking back towards Main Street-! In the second shot we have a nice close-up of those ubiquitous bullet-shaped mid-century, fiberglass planters, with their matching tripod steel stands. (I wonder if those planters are still around...)

Oh, Sabastian-!

Thanks, Major.

Nanook said...

And, Major-
The Carnation Truck has a modified Ford Model T body, with a Ford Model A engine. As you may remember, the truck is built to a ¾ scale, to better match the 'reduced scale' of Disneyland's Main Street.

Chuck said...

I am digging Grandma's psychedelic pseudo-Nehru coat.

Glad that modern Disney design and execution wasn't a thing when the Carnation truck was built. If it had been, when they decided to go to 3/4 scale, the quarter that might have been redesigned out of the project would probably have been the engine. And then the whole thing would have been covered in glitter and used to sell something out of.

Loving the JG & Sebastian picture, especially the double-pixelated version. Thanks, Major & David W.!


The Carnation Delivery Truck - the first of Bob Gurr’s projects to ever be referred to as a “ Gurrmobile” was built all new on a Ford Model A chassis. ( I cannot remember off hand if it was a 1928 or a 1931 chassis ) the engines on all the Main Street vehicles were modern when constructed. In fact the whole reason Disney manufactured NEW vehicles for Main Street was they determined early on that even refurbished vintage vehicles wouldn’t withstand the continuous daily operation that would be required of them. The only other vintage parts of the Carnation truck were the headlight - they are actually Ford side lights and would have never been used as headlight . At some point in the truck’s history those vintage lights were replaced with correct looking headlights but I’m not sure if they were vintage or studio fabricated . The truck isn’t a copy of any specific model but typical of a pre 1915 delivery truck. It’s body type is referred to as a “pie wagon” body with its curved roof and oval opera windows.

The Horseless carriages were also built on modified Ford Model A chassis. Other than those Model A chassis ,and the carnation truck’s sidelight “headlights” , the only other real vintage part on a Main Street vehicle was on omnibus #1 - it featured a real circa
1910 Klaxon truck/ bus horn.

Euro Disneyland’s Main Street USA features a close copy of the Carnation truck parked on center street ...... used as a merchandise vending kiosk .

"Lou and Sue" said...

That last photo steals the show, today! Love it! JG & Sebastian make a great team! And so do David & David - thank you!

Melissa said...

Under the C
Is an R, an A, and a B!

I spy a pair of almost-matching kids in that sea of headless bodies.

JG said...

Oh man, this is a triple-whammy post, Major & David!

I love the Flower Mart, and having my portrait with Sebastian is the best surprise ever, and you have kept us safe from the Yakuza!

Thank you!


Nanook said...

According to an Anonymous comment back in the March 1, 2010 GDB post all about the Carnation Truck, (he) stated... "The truck was built by my father, foreman of the Carnation Los Angeles plant truck garage and my uncle, the foreman of the garages body shop. The truck is scaled down to match the scale of Main Street Disneyland it has a modified ford model T body with a ford model A engine".

Grant said...

I logged in on a grey, overcast, So Cal "June Gloom" morning expecting the usual Sunday Snoozer but found bright, colorful photos and got a smile from David W.'s addition to JG's photo. Nice!

Thanks Major and David!

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty sure it didn't matter if the flowers sold or not. That was a time when intangables mattered more than profit per square foot.

Major Pepperidge said...

Nanook, fun fact, those planters were bullet-shaped so that they could better withstand the pressures of supersonic speeds. IT’S TRUE!

Nanook, I remembered that the Carnation truck used an old Ford engine, but… was in too much of a hurry (i.e. “too lazy”) to spend any time looking it up!

Chuck, SAY! A Carnation truck… covered in glitter! It’s ideas like those that we have been looking for. How soon can you be in SoCal? We will pay you a big consultant’s fee!

Mike Cozart, I’m surprised that the Horseless Carriages weren’t referred to as “Gurrmobiles” too, but realize that not everything works out the way I suppose. Unfortunately! I would imagine that even though the Carnation truck was mostly a static prop (for daily use), it probably took a beating from people climbing in and out of it, and just being people. I don’t know anything about old Ford headlights or sidelights, but the Nethercutt Museum in San Fernando has some amazing vintage headlights, and it’s shocking how big they are. As big around as dinner plates. Sidelights were probably smaller, and more appropriate for the scaled-down truck. I wonder if there were just so many old Ford vehicles still around in the 1950s that they were the natural choice (cheap, sturdy, easily available) for Bob Gurr’s purposes? I’ve seen photos of the Disneyland Paris Carnation truck, not crazy about the fact that it is used as a vending kiosk.

Lou and Sue, glad you liked those… you were a big reason why they exist!

Melissa, whenever I see kids like those two girls, in matching (but different-sized) outfits, I feel like the mom must have made them on her trusty sewing machine.

JG, no more worrying about the sound of an approaching motorcycle, driven by a black-clad man with a samurai sword!

Nanook, once in a while I’ll get a comment like that, where I wish I could contact the person, and that was definitely such a case. I’d love to know how much additional info might be out there!

Grant, the sun finally came out here, I hope it does where you are too (though yesterday was hot)!

Major Pepperidge said...

Stu29573, I think you might be right! Boy, are those days long gone.

Anonymous said...

Major & everyone- Happy to be of help with the Photoshop (art direction by Sue). See, that's why JG was sitting off to one side... ;)

Always great to see the Main St. vehicles like the Carnation Truck. Back in 2018, I was able to view the restored Global Van Lines "Model T" up close, before it was auctioned off at the Van Eaton Galleries.



Nanook: - Carnation shops fabricated the delivery body - from drawings done by Gurr. I’m familiar With the gentleman you mention . Carnation also has a restored/ customized vintage delivery truck and it is believed that is what his father may have built - not the Disneyland version. Both trucks are currently displayed together.

For the last year I’ve been building 1/16 the scale models of the Carnation Truck , Global Van Lines Truck and the Yellow Horseless Carriage .
For a client and early on in fabrication building two of each . Maybe when completed the client will allow me to show the models here. I have used blueprints , and studied sever dozen interviews with Bob Gurr regarding the construction of these vehicles. I don’t have my research binder at hand but a lengthy interview with Gurr in about 1975 had Bob Gurr explain for a popular custom car magazine exactly how he built the “ hot rods of Main Street” and breaks down the parts made by the studio and and real modern or vintage parts used.

Carnation was given the Truck after sponsorship and I’m sure most of you know the story that the stipulation was that all the graphics on the Truck had to be sanded off . But when the Carnation people came to retrieve it , it had’t been done and the cycle shop guys we’re all at lunch so the truck was taken home entirely intact.

Another interesting 70’s interview with Gurr regarding the Main Street vehicles was regarding all the metal fabrication. Bob made sure all of the designs used the simplest metal fabrication techniques and that NO complex or compound shapes or curves were used .... just easily cut , shaped and embossed patterns and shapes were used . And a master wood wheel spoke was designed ( except the 4 electric runabouts ) and used to cast the actual spokes for the Disneyland used ones. For the models to keep costs down I've used appropriate looking spokes, lanterns , steering wheels etc from existing vintage model kits to get the right look. Both Truck models feature operating steering .


The restoration of the Global Van Line truck was astounding !!! At the same time I can’t believe it ever got to such a sad heap of parts over such a rather short period of time. But so happy it turned out so perfect! Some real talent went into saving her!


NANOOK : it’s quite possible vintage engine parts could have been used on the Carnation Truck since it wouldn’t be used as a all day attraction driver. Bob says they avoided vintage engine parts as they wanted to be able to easily get replacements if needed with just a short drive from Disneyland .

I know today you can purchase almost every part needed as a reproduction for model Ts and model As.

Anonymous said...

MIKE COZART- That sounds like a neat project that you are working on. That would be nice if you are able to show it, when completed. Since you are working in 1/16 scale, are you using any parts from the Entex Model T Van kits? I built one some years back, it was the 1913 version with the "Templeton & Son Taxidermists" graphics.



Yes! Many parts from vintage ENTEX kits . But now many of those kits are collectible and sell for a few hundred dollars a kit , so I’ve also sourced pieces from MINICRAFT a later issue of the ENTEX series. A Omnibus and Fire Engine may follow down the line.

I guess in the 70’s the 1/16 Entex kits sold well but most were never built because people were overwhelmed with the number of pieces and sub assemblies the kits featured. But it looks like in the 90’s and 2000’s those unbuilt kits were snapped up by collectors. And variations like the 3 Thomas Flyers go for big bucks.

Major Pepperidge said...

DW, thanks again for your fun (and excellent) Photoshop job! It’s kind of surprising how good the 2-D Sebastian looks there. I saw the Global Van Lines truck at the Richard Kraft/Van Eaton auction, did you get to see it even MORE close up?

Mike Cozart, I think Daveland has photos of several slightly different Carnation trucks, which was a revelation to me. They sure look great. Wow, I would love to see those scale models of the vehicles that you are building when they are done (if your client is OK with it). Thank goodness you have those resources with information straight from Bob Gurr, I’m glad he was so generous with his process. Elbridge Stuart shared that great story about how the Disney folks all went to lunch, allowing he and his crew to load the truck up, graphics intact, to take it back to Seattle. So hilarious. Your skill in model making is so great, I never had a talent for that sort of thing.

Mike Cozart, I never saw how bad the Global Van Lines truck looked at its worst; by the time I realized that it was still around, it had already been mostly restored. What a souvenir that would be!

Mike Cozart, while it might not be true today, I’ll bet that back in the ‘50s, parts (and even entire vehicles) from Model A’s, Model T’s, and other early Fords were plentiful and easy to come by. There’s a man on my mom’s street who restores cars, and he drives a beautiful Model T, painted a lovely soft yellow.

DW, YES, I am SO hoping that we get to see those models when Mike is done! You’ve shown me photos of some of your model work and sculptures, they are quite incredible (for those on GDB who don’t know)!

Mike Cozart, it’s amazing how some old models have become so rare and valuable. Think of the days (the ‘70s) when the Star Wars guys would buy shelves of old models just to “kit bash”. At some point they wound up having to cast and reproduce particularly useful pieces because the models had become scarce (probably bought by Star Wars nuts)!

"Lou and Sue" said...

Major, I find it interesting how many artistic people your blog draws. Seriously. GDB is an online artist colony.

For example, we've seen:
Mike Cozart's model work (incredible!);
Stu's Moonliner model (super cool!);
Melissa's poetry, costume designing (and much more);
DrGoat's hand-carved Tiki (I absolutely LOVE it!);

...and I can go on and on, as there are MORE Jr. Gorillas out there with creative skills (blogs; musical talents; writing skills, etc.) who I haven't mentioned....

Now, Major, you mention that DW also does models and sculptures....Please "show and tell"!!