Monday, February 08, 2021

1960s vs 1980s

I happened to have two Tomorrowland slides taken from nearly the same location, looking in the same direction, allowing us a chance to see some of the changes that took place over two decades.

First up: sometime in the 1960's (the slide is undated)! The Carousel of Progress opened in July of 1967, so we can at least be certain that this is from after that date. Notice the folks walking down the exterior ramp after looking at the fantastic, large model of Progress City on the upper level of that building, while a few others linger to takin in the view. There's no doubt who sponsored that attraction! It must have been somewhat chilly, there's plenty of jackets and sweaters. 

The Tomorrowland Terrace is to our left. Wash your burger and fries down with an ice-cold Coke! The Peoplemover and Skyway both make cameos.


Next is another undated slide, but I am guessing it is from sometime in the 1980s. The most obvious change is the size of the trees near the Peoplemover track in the distance, and the palms near what was now the "America Sings" attraction are noticeably taller. Coca Cola needed to update their logo, and somebody had the genius idea of going from a circle to a square. He got a million-dollar bonus. 

Notice the Cast Member to our left; Tomorrowland had some pretty cool costumes at one time, but that red and yellow thing is kind of awful. We can see Rolly Crump's space age bandstand to the left, while people dine at the Space Place to our right.


EXTRA! EXTRA! GDB friend Mike Cozart has graciously shared images of artwork that he owns showing the concepts for costumes at the Tomorrowland Terrace. VERY COOL! Thank you, Mike!


30 comments:

Anonymous said...

Gee, I like her Coke Terrace outfit… really puts me in the mood for a Space Mist!


~Huck

Nanook said...

Major-

"Class... compare and contrast..." Yes, that CM outfit is a bit awful. Is that supposed to be a space age take on a pill box hat-? (I certainly hope that CM isn't also working at Hot Dog On a Stick. Just imagine the constant angst being clothed in such outfits-!)

Major, have a Coke and a smile-!

MIKE COZART said...

That 1967 view has the Tomorrowland Terrace using the Coca-Cola “button” graphic - a style used since the 1940’s and fairly old fashioned by the 1970’s. The Tomorrowland Terrace costume features that Coca-Cola round button on the top of the costumes pillbox hat. That version of the costume made its debut in the early 70’s and was revised in the late 70’s as the costumes often kept the same look but were altered to fit cut and fitting styles over the decades. A good example is the Haunted Mansion costume - the look has been in use since 1969 but over the years the fabric has changed and the overall cut of the look as been updated. A 1969 mansion costume looks ..... very 1969. Interestingly that Tomorrowland Terrace style costume was used into 1987.

I have the costume concept art for those I’ll send major images if he wants to add them to the post.

TokyoMagic! said...

I love "before" and "after" comparisons, but these are extra special because they have the Carousel Theater building (before they ruined it!)

Is that the red Monorail train that we can see behind the trees and those two Skyway buckets (first pic)?

The top of that cast members bell boy style hat, had the round Coca-Cola logo on it (as seen on the sign in the first pic). I guess it was just another subtle reminder for guests to "buy Coke!"

TokyoMagic! said...

Oops, Mike beat me to the info about the Coke logo being on the top of those hats!

MIKE COZART said...

In the first image the PEOPLEMOVER cars have their first version of safety bars so the picture had to have been taken in late 1968 or after but before 1973.

K. Martinez said...

The first image represents Tomorrowland perfection. Never did this "land" look better than in this photo when Tomorrowland was at its peak best.

Thanks for the extra cool pics, Major.

Andrew said...

I didn't know that three flags (USA, CA, and DL?) replaced the GE logo.

It's a cool coincidence that you have these two similar views. They even both have Skyway buckets passing each other. Thanks, Major.

DrGoat said...

I agree with K. I'll take the first one. I wouldn't mind adding in the mature vegetation but do miss the old Tomorrowland. Looks like on a wintery day.
I'll be completely honest and say for right now, I'd take either.
Must have been summertime in the second photo. Love the hat on that toddler, lower right of that pic.
Would love to see those concept drawings Mike. What 'ya say Major.
Thanks Major. Great start to the week.

"Lou and Sue" said...

There’s someone wearing red and orange in both pictures, in about the same area - our Coke gal and a gentleman.

"Lou and Sue" said...

In the 2nd picture, it looks like 3 Skyway buckets are in a bunch, but I only see 2 “hangers”??

JC Shannon said...

I like3 then and now shots. That cast member could be a flight attendant for Braniff. I loved that airline. Turquoise Peoplemover cars, this must be my lucky day. Lou and Sue, this is obviously a glitch in the matrix. According to a not so reliable 14 year old You Tuber, we all live inside the simulation. Ask too many questions and poof, your bucket hanger is gone. Thanks Major.

Nanook said...

@ MIKE COZART-
Thanks, as always for the cool info. The 'new' Coca-Cola logo - 'wave', or 'dynamic ribbon' was introduced in 1969.

Major Pepperidge said...

Huck, I guess it’s the red and yellow color combo (“ketchup and mustard”) that turns me off! Nothing against the classic Space Mist drink…

Nanook, I guess we’ll be wearing McDonald’s colors in the future instead of silver lamé. Oh well, at least I’ll still have my flying car.

Mike Cozart, I love those old Coke “buttons”, and in fact just saw one (a BIG one) for sale in great condition. Only $2,200! It would be a great pop art thing to have on one’s wall though - I honestly would buy it if I could! I couldn’t tell that the hat on the CM said “Coca-Cola” on the top, but if I squint hard enough I can JUST see it. If you’ve ever seen the old Coca Cola Sprite (not Sprite the drink, the little boy “sprite” with the bottle cap hat that used to be Coke’s mascot) it kind of reminds me of that. THANKS for sharing that great costume artwork!!

TokyoMagic! ha ha, I had the feeling you might have something to say about the Carousel Theater building. Good eye on the red Monorail, I didn’t notice it. Did other sponsors have their product names so boldly featured right on the costume at Disneyland?

TokyoMagic!, that’s OK, you still get credit!

Mike Cozart, ah, OK, that is good to know, thank you.

K. Martinez, I only wish that the first photo had been taken on a sunny day with a blue sky. You know how much I like that!

Andrew, I can’t quite tell what that third flag is. Maybe it’s a Disneyland flag…? I think of something like that as being more from the 1950s and 1960s, but honestly don’t know.

DrGoat, I would of course take the first photo if I had a choice, but the second one is still pretty nice. Like you, I’d take either! I’ll bet that kid with the bucket hat grew up to still wear bucket hats, like when he mowed his lawn while also wearing long black socks.

Lou and Sue, it’s all part of my plan!!

Lou and Sue, it is possible that what looks like a Skyway gondola is actually a Peoplemover vehicle?

Jonathan, I like then and now shots too! I’d do more of them if I could. These two just happened to fall into my hands within weeks of each other - what are the odds? I’ve seen photos of some Braniff flight attendant uniforms, they are pretty racy considering! They could hardly be shorter. I’m pretty positive that I live inside a simulation, no matter what that 14 year old says.

Nanook, oh interesting, I didn’t know that. Any idea if a famous graphic artist came up with the “wave”?

Anonymous said...

This is a fun pair of photos, for all the documentation of every corner of Disneyland, it is unusual to see two so nearly identical viewpoints.

I think that the 80's view might have been taken from the spot where the two boys in the matching light blue jackets are standing in the 60's view. Are they brothers, cousins, or father and son?

I agree with Dr. Goat, I would gladly take either one and enjoy a Vader-free Tomorrowland. Notice the long, thoughtfully placed bench, designed to hang out and watch the crowd, or just rest your weary feet and have a Space Mist.

Tokyo, I am sure you are right about Monorail Red, a World on the Move.

Also looks like marigolds were the planter spot color on the Tomorrowland Stage for over 20 years.

For all of the grand visions of future architecture and transport in Best Tomorrowland, the vision of future fashion as seen on the young lady is not great. I'm glad that the CM costume style and similar "Lost in Space" togs never took off for the public.

Thanks to Mike Cozart for the background info and yes, I vote to see the fashion sketches.

Thanks Major and all the Junior Gorillas.

JG

Anonymous said...

MP: Yes, that is a 36” x 60” powder blue Disneyland flag alongside the CA flag and a not-quite-authentic American flag (missing a stripe/star or two so it need not be illuminated or come down at night or be flown at half-mast) atop the carousel building.

They used to be flown over three areas of the park when I worked there, Main Street Station being the most obvious. After the CoP vacated the upstairs area of the carousel building, Operations (Attractions) moved their offices up there and ROs occasionally wandered up to the roof and absconded with the DL flags as I saw two or three over the years while attending parties at certain folk’s shindigs.

Once in a while, we’d get a call to help out Operations by wandering up to the second level of America Sings with a large plastic bag and grabbing the trash somebody working graveyard had forgotten to remove the night before. All day and all night long in those offices, one could hear the finale of Joy to the World—over and over and over—I honestly don’t know how those people could stand it! That said, about ten minutes into starting to sweep a Small World shift, we’d stop hearing the clock ticking away… so I guess one can train their noggin to ignore certain sounds after a bit.

That’s all I know!


~Huck

Omnispace said...

Oh! All those lucky people who just finished their presentation of Progress City, walking across the upper level and down that wonderful wide ramp! I'm sure that happy song is still stuck in their heads. I still maintain that the final "act" of Carousel Of Progress was the view from that balcony, seeing the reality of an imagined future.

I had the impression that Coca Cola's "wave" logo was created by a famous designer. I wanted to say Raymond Lowey but it turns out he designed a dispenser for them and maybe their bottle? I think the "Wave" was supposed to represent the shape of the bottle? Thanks for the fantastic costume sketches, Mike. The second photo proves that not everyone has a 15" waist and mile-long pencil-thin legs.

I'd love to step into either of these photos - though of course the sunny day really shows off how wonderful this version of Tomorrowland was.

Melissa said...

Dog the fellows in the matching light blue jackets in #1!

I always get irrationally irritated at the “Enjoy Coca-Cola” slogan. I mean, you can tell me what to drink, but you can’t make me enjoy it!

Major Pepperidge said...

JG, it is so unusual to find two photos that are so close in viewpoint that I got excited as soon as I found the second one (which in this case was actually the one from the 1960s; the one from the 1980s was already in my hands. It’s hard to say if the guys in the matching jackets are brothers or whatever, since we can just see the backs of their heads. Maybe they were in a gang! I wonder if that long bench is gone, since it appears to be sculpted in to the planter behind it? My guess is: probably LONG gone. Marigolds are good, they are the first thing I ever planted, when I was around 5 years old (we were given seeds for class). It was very exciting to see them start to pop out of the ground - like magic. I would love “Lost in Space” togs, from the early silver outfits to the colorful jumpsuits of the later seasons!

Huck, oh man, is that true? They use an inaccurate flag so that they don’t have to do any of the respectful maintenance on it? I’ve NEVER heard of that scam before! Thanks for the info on the Disneyland flag, I’ll have to look that graphic up. I’ve often thought that many positions at the park would be maddening due to the repetitive sounds. That tooty Teacup song for hours on end…! But I guess you are right, somehow (fortunately) the human brain is able to eventually filter out unwanted noises like that. Otherwise there would be a lot of cast members on the verge of going crazy!

Omnispace, I sure do miss that Progress City model; I wish they’d send it back to Disneyland and restore it while they were at it. Long ago I read something from an Imagineer who said he volunteered to restore it as a labor of love, and the suits said, “No, thanks”. I agree, stepping out onto the balcony and getting that view of Tomorrowland (especially at night) was a real treat. Raymond Loewy is a great guess, maybe I’ll have to do some research when I get a little more time. Many times info like that is lost to time, but we’re talking Coca-Cola after all, not exactly an obscure brand. Ya gotta love fashion drawings that give women legs that are five feet long!

Melissa, there’s something up with those guys, I will definitely keep an eye on them. I’ve seen both “Enjoy Coca-Cola” and “Drink Coca-Cola” I believe; I’m pretty sure I have a glass with “Drink Coca-Cola” printed on the side.

MIKE COZART said...

The Disneyland decorating department made “Disneyland” blue banner flags( flags and pennant type) for the Main Street Fire House , America Sings , Frontierland Riverboat Landing and the Mark Twain and the baggage wing of the Main Street Train Station. ( the passenger platform ends for a orange Mickey flag) why these specific structures / vehicles got these Blue flags is unknown to me. But when they were completed each flag would be carefully wrapped in a clear bag with a printed note “ made by hand with pride by Disneyland decorating “ I used to have several of these flags That were worn but over time sold them off and only kept a Mark Twain one - I had a place professionally clean it to get the bird crap off of it!! Today I think the train station , Riverboat landing and the Mark Twain use them but they seem to be a darker blue .

MIKE COZART said...

I’ve been researching the Disney park costumes for almost 20 years now and was lucky to have met and interviewed some of the groups major designers - especially from the major 1968 - 1998 period. The 3 main designers during that time - along with various assistants did all the costumes for Disneyland , Walt Disney World , Epcot , and Tokyo Disneyland and limited amount of Euro Disneyland too ( that’s a big political story on EDL .....)

I know people always my jokes and funny comments about the older park costumes .... and looking back they do stand out ( like our Tomorrowland Terrace cast member garb) but in actuality those costume - while having to be done with a operational function in mind were actually all on spot on with fashion trends of the same period. They were not shocking to guests and sponsors as they are to us today. I’d really think that maybe the colors were more bold or fanciful than the actual cut or line of the look.

I did a couple of presentations for San Diego State a few years ago on the park costumes and I knew I was gonna get some jokes regarding the past looks from the design students - so I pulled a trick.
As I went of the costume changes of Tomorrowland from the late 60’s and into the 80’s I showed “costume concepts “ for several attractions and others ..... Peoplemover and inner space jumpsuits , split skirts of Tomorrowland Terrace ... carousel of progress hostess costumes ... space mountain attraction jumpsuits ....
The students made their expected comments about the funny looks and “Way off” fashion predictions of the future. Then I reveled the “Trick”
............ none of the designs were actually from Disneyland or WDW but were fashion catalog and pattern art from Vogue , McCalls , Butterick , Simplicity ...... all contemporary fashion patterns from the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. This showed them that Disney wasn’t FAR OUT or OFF abd that they were not copying other designs.. Disney park costume designers were right on trend with “next years” new look!! ..... new looks for 1972, 1975 ..... 1978 etc......these main line fashion trends were then shown next to similar Disneyland costumes.

MIKE COZART said...

MAJOR: I have to agree — the only other costume I can think of with pretty BOLD sponsor graphics or advertising would be the late 60’s - early 70’s ENCHANTED TIKI ROOM cast costumes - the well known blue or red fabric with “enchanted tiki room - united airlines “ printed all over to create the Hawaiian pattern . BTW United Airlines used almost an identical fabric ( minus Tiki room) for its VIP ALOHA LOUNGES starting in 1967 when United Airlines revamped its whole graphic look. About the same time the new tiki room costumes AND the hard to find VERSION # 2 Tiki Room attraction poster appeared at Disneyland .

Sponsors logos were usually confined to a patch sewn own .... however because sponsor cane and went , costuming switched from a patch to a pin - so if the sponsors left the costumes could still be used by just removing the sponsor’s pin.

Color also represented the sponsor- WALT DISNEY WORLD’S “IF YOU HAD WINGS” used it’s sponsor Eastern Airlines “ionosphere blue” and “Caribbean blue “ colors for its cast member costumes. Same for Disneyland American Journeys using “champagne red” and “oasis orange” directly from PSA airlines for its costumes.

I have concept art for the male and female Space Place costumes in orange and blue — and then the same costumes in red and blue to please it’s sponsor PEPSI COLA.

All the costumes for the parks then had to please the head costume designer , Imagineering , park operations , a sponsor ( if applicable) and t then a final GREEN LIGHT from John Hench.


The Tomorrowland Terrace costume was also used on the Monorail in the 70’s / early 80’s ( another version of a ticket taker skirt was used in the 60’s too) skirt was also for a short time in blue tones and a different hat. Females had a monorail jumpsuit and also a ticket taker skirt.

"Lou and Sue" said...

Interesting comments and info, all started by Ms. Coca Cola...thanks, Mike, Huck, Major and all!

Major Pepperidge said...

Mike Cozart, Huck just sent me some photos of Disneyland park flags, it turns out that I have seen them before (maybe for sale in a Van Eaton auction). It would be cool to own one of those! I know the orange Mickey flag you referred to as well. Very cool that you have one of the Mark Twain flags, Van Eaton definitely sold one of those (I remember because they took one of my photos to use in the catalog)! What an awesome souvenir. It paid to be an insider like you!

Mike Cozart, did you interview those costume designers for your own purposes? Or for an article that you were writing? Or… for some other reason? I think of people I’ve met over the years that I wish I’d interviewed - though they might have said “NO” if I’d asked, ha ha. I think of the bold yellow and vivid blue of those Autopia costumes of the late 1960s, and the red/orange jumpsuits for the folks working the Rocket Jets… very cool, but I don’t know how shocking they would have been. Other than the colors, as you said. I’ve seen photos (maybe on your blog?) of the early Inner Space costumes, THOSE were pretty crazy, and the “hats” or head coverings remind me of ones that you see in “2001: A Space Odyssey”, so that must have been a fashion trend of some sort. I like the trick that you pulled on the kids at San Diego State! They think they’re so smart (ha ha)!

Mike Cozart, ah yes, the Tiki Room costumes did mention United Airlines, you are right. Jeez, I’d love to own one of those shirts, or even the repros (though those are not the United Airlines versions) that came out around the 50th. It’s funny, I have the “hard to find” Tiki Room poster, but never managed to get one of the earlier ones. You’re right about sponsors being mentioned on patches, such as Goodyear for the Peoplemover. Interesting that they switched to pins, it sort of makes sense, and hey, then there’s a collectible pin for me to look for! Thanks for the info about the reasons certain color choices were made, such as for “If You Had Wings”. I didn’t know that the sponsors had that much influence over the costumes. Thank you so much for all of the amazing info, Mike!

Lou and Sue, it’s SO great to have to many knowledgeable readers to chime in and make these posts so much richer!

JG said...

Yes Major, you are right, the molded bench in the photo is long gone. The area in the photos has been reconfigured, probably in the ill-fated 1998 remodel and it is now partly a planter and partly dining patio for the restaurant area.

I can't put the map view in the photo location, this is as close as I can make it go.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8122093,-117.9173576,3a,75y,123.98h,74.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-iu4Y8TEW0gc9wROfZq5RQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Interesting info about the flags and the costumes matching patterns in the shops. I just don't recall ever seeing anyone where I lived wearing clothes like the Coke CM at any time ever. I know I grew up in a backwater and this proves it.

Thanks for the fashion sketches, Mike. One of my drawing classes in college had a brief segment on fashion illustration. I remember the teacher sketching out the approved figure proportions for the ladies (and somewhat less exaggerated, but still abnormal, for the men) and explaining why this was done. Something to do with flattering the figure so a viewer would think they would look like the model if they wore the clothes. The facial features were also abstracted to the point of virtual non-existence, women's noses were a mere suggestion of a shadow, but men were allowed to have more natural appearance. The sacrifices we make for style.

JG

MIKE COZART said...

JG: fashion illustration wasn’t the only industry that did that - automotive illustration used what was calked “WIDE TRACK” method mainly in the 50’s thru the early 70’s where the actual automobile was drawn slightly lower and wider that it actually was creating a more sophisticated look to the vehicle. Also in most cases the illustrator for the car itself was different than the illustrator for the car’s background or setting ....

I was probably one the last few colleges graduating classes that were still being taught all the original elements of architectural delineation - even today I prefer to render marker, pencil and gauche and draft in lead and ink . But a popular style of perspective was called DESK TOP METHOD .... this artificially brought the perspective lines in closer than they should be , but created a more dramatic view of the structure and enhancing its overall appearance - despite not being really 100% realistic. But like the Many of automotive illustrations It gave the rendering a more sophisticated look and gave a feel of movement and activity to something stationary. By the 70’s illustration went more in the direction of technical illustration with highly accurate vanishing points and extreme tight precise lines .... this was done with about 9 sizes of rapidogrsph ink pens - mostly by STADLER-MARS. In fact almost all of the graphic designers who created the screen separations for the elaborate attraction posters of the mid 70’s - early 80’s all were former architectural illustrators!!!

JG said...

Mike, thank you for that information about the car illustrators. Did not know that, but it makes sense thinking about it.

Like you, I learned illustration with "real tools", pen and ink, watercolor gouache, pencil, felt tips, and spirit marker. Plastic triangles with ink offsets, parallel bar and t-squares.I had a couple of full sets of those Stadler Rapidograph pens, with at least nine sizes.

Those pens were hugely expensive and getting a full set of the top brand was a big achievement. Like buying a full suite of Photoshop or the fastest Macintosh today.

My daughter has what is left of them, using in her illustration work. I think almost all her paid work is in Illustator and similar electronic tools, but she does real physical drawings for fun. I stopped about 20 years ago to focus on technical work.

Most of my professional work was done with pen and ink on vellum or mylar. Then we would reproduce via Ozalid onto "brownline" paper which had a nice beige background and sepia-tone lines. Then color over that with Prismacolor pencils and the spirit markers.

I was never good at perspectives. Landscape drawings and site plans were my favorites.

All of this is lost technology now. A/E work is 100% computer now and I don't think the current generation of architects even know about the old tools. They are all focused on animations etc. Artists and illustrators probably still do, but it is really dying out.

I loved the physical aspects of the tools, the vellum had an odor, pencils and spirit marker too. Textures and even sounds. All gone now.

Cheers.

JG

MIKE COZART said...

JG: connected to the model shop in the MAPO building at WDI ( there’s a model shop in the 1401 building too) is the Character Finishing group - and these ladies still do building exterior guide boards in ink, pencil and paint. They also will paint models for us. The model shop and the character finishing group is the only place at WDI you see people actually building and creating physical work anymore ... ( art wise)

I do some freelance work for a few architectural firms in Newport Beach and Laguna .... and they sometimes request traditional perspective color renderings for presentations to clients ( they are still doing the planing dvd design on a computer) but the clients love it!

Also ink sketching is a vital ability in design meetings still at WDI .... whole projects can take a entire change in direction just before lunch .... and it’s all done with ink and paper and that’s what our deliverables are. If you cannot sketch and draw by hand you will be one a draftsperson and never a designer at WDI. Nobody wants to huddle 15 around someone’s laptop !! Lol. Finished finalized drawings can be done on the computer later on.

We use to have to wait for corrections from the architects ( few are actual imagineers and are hired as needed) but you can tell that their proficiency and speed at Cad .... doesn’t make the design better or more accurate . I think when we used to hunch over or stand at the drafting table we spent more time evaluating and catching mistakes ....so many times we had to wait for corrections and verifications from the architect before we can start the models - mistakes that you would not expect from them - and the computer didn’t catch it.

On shanghai DL the architectural department had us build a 1/2 scale model of the entire grand stairway systems because the ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS couldn’t figure out how to adjust all the steps to be equal in size and the landings inside the castle!!? I was dumbstruck - my boss said yeah he was surprise they had to be charged for a model like that - but non of them got it. I said to my boss how did they get architectural licenses??? If you ever go to Shanghai DL’s Castle : TAKE THE ELEVATOR!!

Anonymous said...

This is good stuff.

Also, if someone hasn't suggested it, I think the "pillbox hat" was supposed to represent a battle cap.

JG said...

Mike, that is so great to hear. Thanks for sharing that! I would not have been an imagineer, I was never a spontaneous sketcher, and never learned CAD. my skills led to technical stuff that didn’t require design and I bypassed computer design. I can do a pretty good isometric sketch of a window flashing sequence, but no big picture concepts.

I’m not surprised that some clients want traditional drawings. I’ve read that people react better to hand sketches than 3DStudio renderings. The last sketches I recall making were a series of townhouse models that were sketchovers from the REVIT models. Our client couldn’t relate to the hard edge computer, but the loose felt tip / spirit marker drawing sold the design. 15 years ago.

Your associates are right, architectural skills have atrophied over the last decade and things we all had to know back in my day are now forgotten. The Great Recession decimated our profession. I now make my living selling that forgotten knowledge.

JG