Blurzles, July 1961
Sometimes I'll acquire a batch of slides, only to find that over half of them are not in focus. Camera issues? Caffein? Earthquakes? Perhaps a combination of all three. Whatever the case, it's aggravating, and I don't mind telling you (*whispering*) that I might have cried a little. Still, this first one is not a total loss; it's fun to see so many Main Street vehicles lined up, from a Horse Drawn Streetcar, to two Horseless carriages (one is different from the other, is it a "jitney"?), and a Surrey.
More blur! A Surry passes a Streetcar and an Omnibus. The horse was trained to make engine-revving noises so that it felt more exciting. Neeeuuuuurrrrr! Whoooooooommm! Now you do one. You're not going to let those horses out-cool you, are you?
18 comments:
I wonder if the Horseless Carriage is an actual auto from that era or if it's a Bob Gurr creation? I think the red sign on the right says: "Fire Wagon to Plaza"(?) Plus another line under that which I can't make out; a common occurrence in Blurzles.
It looks like the Surrey is racing the Streetcar and the Omnibus. Sort of a "Tortoise and the Hare" type of thing. The horse on the right is wearing a dark blue umbrella sun bonnet. The kid in back is wearing a souvenir hat with a pink ostrich plume. Or maybe his hat is on fire, and that's a plume of pink smoke. This IS the Magic Kingdom after all!
Not all that blurry, as Blurzles go. Thanks, Major.
I think the red sign on the right says: "Fire Wagon to Plaza"(?) Plus another line under that which I can't make out....
JB, the second line says "P.S. Watch out for chili beans being flicked down from above."
Thanks for the Sunday Blurzles, Major!
I actually see in Blurzle(tm) so these photos look like every other photo on the blog to me. I like seeing so many transportation devices on the street, and part of the genteel hustle and bustle of Main St. were the many vehicles you would see: with the horses giving way to the motorcars. Old photos of cities like New York, show this kind of transition: with horses still around, and street cars, and new fangled automobiles all sharing the same (dirt) road. What's really amazing is that it's really not that long ago...in comparison to things like Roman, Greek, or Egyptian civilizations. The first photo clearly is another early one, with no barriers around the grassy areas. I am debating which "looks" I like best: nothing, ropes, or fencing...hmmmm....I DO like the early little inexpensive low wire scalloped mini fencing...which they still make...it looks rather charming, and I have a few in my yard...which keeps doggies out, but the rabbits and other creatures think they are invitations to the buffet. I'm not sure Disneyland had rabbits...but it seems that if it was agriculture prior to it's existence, there would absolutely be some creatures roaming about...ESPECIALLY since there were walnut groves. I find walnut shells all over my yard....and I'm not sure even where the tree is. So, if there is food....there are animals. I'm not sure who eats the oranges...birds probably... parrots (?) On a somewhat recent visit "there" I saw a giant flock of parrots around the Matterhorn...eating some tippy tops of trees....I would think that animal DNA would keep some species hunting food for decades after human civilization took over: which is why you see Deer on 5th avenue sometimes....or on Hollywood Blvd...eventually, Disneyland will be returned to the earth, and the animals. Of course this is centuries and centuries away...or not? Something to ponder. Don't forget Planet of the Apes...instead of the Statue of Liberty at the end....it could be a familiar castle.....and I will leave you with those deep thoughts. Thanks Major!
Vrrrroooooom! I will not be out-cooled by a horse!
Bu, thanks for that mental picture. Now I want to go horseback riding with Linda Hamilton. Chuck Heston was never out-cooled by a horse, either.
All the motorized vehicles are Bob Gurr creations - the 1903 Electrics ( shown with the canopy top - there were 4 off these based on 1901-1906 curved dash Oldsmobiles) the 1903 Horseless Carriage Tonneau (yellow) - and yes also “1903” based on 1903-1905 Franklin Autocars. Walt Disney World features a Jitney which uses the same hood , motor , and chassis as the Main Street Fire Engine. The Main Street Surreys - there were 4 …. In burgundy , blue, green , black…. We’re mistakenly called Surreys for most of their existence.
Here’s what happened : there were 4 actual SURREYS built fir Disneyland ( 2 fringe top and 2 Auto tops ) … and they were used on Main Street USA .. for a very short time … but they could only carry about 3-4 passengers … the guidebooks and first vehicle stops listed the SURREYS - even the brass cut silhouettes used on the signs always showed the actually SURREYS …. But we’re replaced with the larger DEPOT HACKS / WAGONETTES as listed on their fabrication drawings. You are seeing a DEPOT HACK - WAGONETTE in todays images at the base of the station. HOWEVER , after the real surreys were regulated to parades and special events … the signage and guides were never changed when the DEPOT HACKS/WAGONETTES went into service.
( I’m having blogger issues)
Anyway after the real surreys were replaced with the larger capacity DEPOT HACKS - WAGONETTES , the signage and nomenclature was never changed . This also happened when the FIRE ENGINE was added in 1958 …. The signage remained “FIRE WAGON” long after the actual Fire Wagon was retired . FIRE WAGON signs were used well into the 1970’s before finally being updated. And forever the Disneyland DEPOT HACKS will be mistakenly known as the SURREYS …. It’s been 70 years now. It’s not a big deal … but it’s not technical accurate . It’s like calling a Volkswagen Beetle a “Limousine”… or a School Bus a “ambulance “ or a hearse a “stagecoach” or a 1974 Station Wagon a “SUV”.
Oh I almost forgot : besides WDW, TOKYO DISNEY SEAS has 2 different JITNEYS as part of their BIG CITY VEHICLES fleet at AMERICAN WATERFRONT. I believe a Jitney is a private taxi/ bus service with changeable destination s as opposed to a livery - taxi service with set designated service areas .
I’m with Bu, the whole world looks like this without my glasses. I often wander around home without them since I know where everything is. I could do the same in Disneyland.
That driver is going to get a ticket parking in the fire wagon space. There’s a thought! Instead of stagecoach or train robbers, they could have had the Keystone Kops stop the Main Street vehicles and pass out traffic citations. That would be a guest experience par excellence.
I love the picture of the vehicles passing, all that’s missing is fire from the exhaust pipes like those funny hot rod stickers. We even get a trash can in each photo. Perfect Main Street. Thank you!
JG
@ JB-
"I think the red sign on the right says: "Fire Wagon to Plaza"(?)"
Look HERE, HERE, and HERE to get a better idea of the text.
JB, Bob Gurr designed all of the Main Street vehicles, but he was such a car nut that he was able to make them very convincing as true old-timey cars (etc). And that’s the entire story of Bob Gurr. THE END. I predict that, someday, teenagers are going to discover the fun and creativity of customizing surreys, and there on Saturday nights they will cruise up and down their local streets, giving each other hot apple pies and singing folk songs.
TokyoMagic!, that sign was put there thanks to Walty’s lawyers. “Damn ambulance chasers (*cough*)” he’d say, shaking his fist at a nearby child.
Bu, I have one photo (taken during Christmastime) in which you can see that all four Streetcars are in Town Square, it’s pretty amazing. I love the Main Street vehicles too, they are the kind of thing that work even if you aren’t personally riding them. It must be frustrating to be one of the drivers, since people walk in the street (slowly) and don’t seem to notice all of the vehicles trying to do their thing. There are tons of rabbits in my mom’s city, and her neighbor used to somehow blame my mom for any rabbits that got into *her* backyard. As if my mom was raising the things. Meanwhile, you’d drive down the street at night and see dozens of bunnies, who seemed to like the still-warm blacktop. I doubt a rabbit could get within a quarter mile of Disneyland before the park’s high-tech security system would fry them with a military laser. I’ve seen it with my own eyeballs! Squirrels like oranges, I used to watch squirrels in my grandma’s yard roll a fallen orange up a tree trunk so that they could safely gnaw on it from a high branch. Those green parrots sure seem to be everywhere these days (do they migrate up from Mexico?), and I think they are neat, but man do they make a racket. As long as they stay far enough away, I will continue to love them.
Chuck, no fair, the horses can’t wear t-shirts with a pack of cigarettes rolled up in one sleeve! And there’s nothing cooler than that, as science has proven.
Mike Cozart (I read ahead), interesting about the different Surreys, because I had noticed that in some photos it looked like they could hardly carry any passengers, and in other photos, it looked like there could be at least 6 (or 8?) passengers. I just figured that it was because guests were 5/8 scale back then. I feel like I saw a photo of one of Disneyland’s Surreys at the park recently, but can’t recall the details, it might have just been on display. So maybe they have at least one still in storage?
Mike Cozart, I have the feeling that Walt (and everyone else) just liked the word “Surrey” more than “Wagonette” or “Depot Hack”. You know, the association with that song from The Music Man. “Fire Wagon” is also more old-timey, even if it wasn’t entirely accurate. I do call a Volkswagen Beetle a limousine, but I am only six inches tall. I know this is barely-related, but I was looking at the photo of the Skyway going over Holiday Hill the other day, and thinking how nice it was for people who wanted to go from Tomorrowland to Fantasyland, they could ride in comfort, and get a beautiful view along the way.
JG, I only wish things looked that clear without my glasses. I’m sure you know that Disneyland used to have Keystone Kops, not just the ones playing saxophones either. They’d sometimes hit you with their nightstick, but it was all part of the fun. “Wow, that hurts just like it probably did in 1890!”, guests would chuckle. Someday they might electrify the Main Street vehicles, but I hope they put a little speaker inside so that they still make that putt-putt noise.
@ MIKE-
Thanks for all the good info, re: Disneyland's "surreys". I knda knew 'surrey' was wrong, but not enough of the details. In the linked images, you can decipher the different brass-cut silhouettes above the actual signage.
MAJOR : the REAL Surrey’s could carry only about 3-4 passengers and a driver. The DEPOT HACK “surreys “ I believe could carry 10 people all together 2 in front and 8 in back.
I have one of the sign toppers of the Omnibus silhouette . I used to have the Horseless Carriage one as well , but I traded it for something. And I know who has one of the Fire Wagon silhouettes.
I mentioned in a post last week that one fringe top surrey and one auto top surrey survive at Disneyland. The other fringe top surrey appears to have been sent to Walt Disney World along with other former Disneyland wagons to be used at Fort Wilderness . For awhile 2 of the 3 DL Yellowstone Stage Coaches brought campers to Pioneer Hall … and I’ve seen photos of the fringe top surrey and the 2 row seat buckboard - also built for Disneyland, being used at Fort Wilderness. The fringe top surrey and the buckboard were used in the WDW TENCENNIAL Parade and others before becoming just decorations. The former Disneyland BEKINS FURNITURE VAN and a Main Street Brewery wagon were both converted to Hay Wagons used in parades and also decor at the Disneyland hotel for private BBQ -western parties in the western Theme section of Seaports of the Pacific. Other vehicles rotted away from being left outside including one of the coal box buggies ( aka a Top Buggy) and one of the buckboards. The depot hack surreys survive as does a Victoria coach , a concord coach and a Mudwagon stage and one Yellowstone Coach.
I’ve shared with a few readers here I think I’ve discovered two of the Frontierland Conestoga Wagons that are in San Diego . Apparently after they were retired Walt donated the four to a Los Angeles hacienda ranchero museum … several movie studios donated real and prop horse drawn vehicles. After the museum closed the vehicles were auctioned off and two of the Conestoga Wagons ended up in San Diego. They are in rough shape having been indoors and outside since the 60’s and are currently protected . I have grown up seeing these wagons and about 10 years ago discovered that since the 60’s had been inventoried as “the Disneyland wagons” !!!!
Mike (Anonymous) Cozart and Major, thanks for the Bob Gurr info. I thought Mr. Gurr might have just used an actual early auto and saved some time and trouble. But maybe his creation is more sturdy and durable?
Nanook, thanks for the sign links. Hmm, I don't see any mention of flicked chili beans on any of those signs.
Major, your (1906?) prediction of "...hot apple pies and singing folk songs"... Well, we can dream, I guess. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.
JB: Bob Gurr used some vintage parts included some model A front ends /chassis … but nothing visible - all underneath . It was determined very early on that while purchasing actual vintage vehicles would have been cheaper … there was no way they would be able to operate on the schedules and volume Disneyland would need. All the main. Street vehicles for Walt Disney world resembled the Disneyland counterparts but were completely redesigned and used 100% new parts . They are also slightly larger and more powerful.
But back to the Disneyland horseless carriages … being slightly less than 70 years old … they do have some chassis parts that are almost 100 years old!
The current Disneyland Omnibuses were built in 1983-84 and were built off of WDW omnibus plans to replaced the two 1950’s original Disneyland omnibuses sent on loan for service at EPCOTS World Showcase. Supposedly the California originals didn’t last long in the Florida humidity and heat and it is not certain as to what actually became of them …reportedly scraped - but at present they have never shown up anywhere . All the retired 1973-1984 Epcot omnibuses - except for one are in private collections. And the two original 1971 WDW omnibuses are also in private collections . The two operating today are also from the 1983-1984 bus production ( all natural gas powered with GMC truck parts , and disc brakes )
Correction : retired 1983-1984 Epcot Omnibus’s .
MAJOR:
“The surrey with the fringe on top” ( Oklahoma)
“The Wells Fargo Wagon” ( The Music Man)
I’m not aware of any songs about a Fire Wagon .. but I suppose at some point in time there must have been.
Ironically the wagon used in filming the music man’s “Wells Fargo wagon” had been an Adam’s Express Wagon …. A competitor of Wells Fargo … eventually Adam’s Express Agency became part of REA ( Railway Express Agency) . The same wagon was used as an ice wagon in the film Meet me in St. Louis . And the ice wagon in the film Hello Dolly was an original city of Los Angeles Ice Wagon of the earth 1900’!!
Major : I believe the Main Street postcard shows the Brewery Wagon … ( one that was converted to a hay wagon) I don’t think the Brewery Wagon ever carried passengers ( maybe they had to sit in barrels) but it must have been driven around for atmosphere. This probably confused early Disneyland guests .
I love the Main Street vehicles . I have many of the 1970’s - 80’s vehicle stops signs … some mentioning tickets - some not . I have most of the A coupon Florida versions too. I have a handful of the 1990’s National Rental Car versions - it’s funny Disneyland did these on metal … but Florida did theirs on Masonite . ( the 1990’s version) apparently there was concern Florida storm winds might break the metal ones off and hurt someone. I’m not aware of this ever happening because the “a” coupon WDW signs are all metal .
Mike Cozart, I know that Bob used actual vintage headlamps, and I believe we’ve seen photos of the Carnation truck’s engine, which might have been a Model T motor. Those were *that* old in 1955! I remember your story about the Disneyland Omnibuses rotting away in Florida, which is horrible, since they went back to ’55. It’s astonishing that there seemed to be no consideration for taking care of those machines in the Florida climate!
Mike Cozart, I’m sure there must be a song about a fire wagon, though it may be obscure. If not, you need to write one! What rhymes with “wagon”? I can think of a few words. I’m thinking of movie studios buying old stuff like real ice wagons, just in case they might need one for some big musical extravaganza!
Mike Cozart, I have never heard of a Brewery Wagon! So that is not the buckboard that we see in some old photos (including LIFE magazine)? I think the text on the postcard calls it a buckboard, but maybe not. I suppose making signs out of masonite seemed like a good idea, safety-wise, but I wouldn’t want to be hit by a masonite sign during hurricane-force winds either.
MAJOR : I learned from TV that sing writing is tough . Even George Jefferson learned when he hired professional jingle writers to create a song for his wife’s birthday . None of the jingle writers could come up with anything and “Sammy” the best jingle writer admired : “ sorry George . It just isn’t easy to find a word that rhymes with ‘Weazy”.
Yes a set of authentic headlamps and some assorted vintage engine parts as well as a claxon horn were used in making some of the original Main Street vehicles.
If it’s the vehicle I’ve seen on postcards - that’s the Brewery Wagon… not a buckboard . Buckboards were smaller lighter - but rugged vehicles … kinda the “pick up truck” of their day. The used light spring suspension seats … most common with one seat ( accommodating two passengers) but often two rows of seats turning the work buckboard into a family wagon … sometimes referred to as a “spring wagon” by carriage makers. Disneyland had both kinds when the park opened , but saw little guest service. In the earliest days you could ride the 4 seater buckboard right into Frontierland and be dropped off in front of the Golden Horshoe …. This was true for the Fringe Surrey and the Autotop Surrey . BTW - the brewery wagon has a much higher drivers seat than a Buckboard and its cargo bed had slightly inward slanted sides ( to keep barrels and kegs within the cargo bed.) fabrication drawings call it a l895 Brewery Wagon. There was also an almost identical wagon called a 1915 Transfer Dray . This wagon was converted to a hay wagon and also sent to Walt Disney World’s Fort Wilderness .
It’s astonishing that with all
That had to be done , Walt insisted on all these historically accurate horse drawn wagons to be replicated in slightly smaller Disneyland scale. The intention was probably to people were exposed to more details of their historic past … And that future generations would know the difference between a surrey , a wagonette , a buckboard , a transfer dray , and a Yellowstone Coach . Lol!!
BTW : I just saw the ghost adventures show where the clucks investigating the bird cage theater in Tombstone AZ call a horse drawn hearse a “stagecoach” they would make terrible movie consultants!!
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