Subs & Lagoon, November 1974
Here's a pair of Snoozers™ (I had to trademark "Snoozers" so that others don't make millions off of it!) featuring the Subs and the Lagoon. Not terrible, but a bit wide of the mark too.
I thought that this first view was taken from the Peoplemover, but based on the next image, it might have been taken from the Monorail. It's not exactly a "bird's-eye" view. More of a "giraffe's eye" view. The safety railing prevents us all from plummeting 30 feet into the drink ("Sid, another one fell in, I guess we'd better install that railing"), but it also runs right through the middle of our photo. Wars have been fought over less.
Now we're at ground level (a "rhinoceros'-eye view") waiting to board our own personal submersible. See the Monorail overhead? What do you think, was the first picture taken from up there? The warm sunshine makes this picture feel mighty inviting, but we're about to board our own Submarine, where we'll travel to depths that sunshine never reaches.
21 comments:
Hmm, while it is interesting to see the Subs from this angle, the photo looks pretty bleak. No doubt one of us will find something incredibly fascinating within it. I think it's the dull colors that leave me feeling underwhelmed.
Now THIS picture is much better! We're on the right side of the light in this one. The warm light, the deep shadows, plus the Monorail and the Sub, all add up to make a pleasant and interesting photo.
It's unusual to see the Lagoon without its deep cerulean blue color; and here are two of them! Thanks, Major.
Also, a heads-up: Andrew has posted part one of his Disneyland After Dark trip report on his Bayern Kurve blog!
TOKYO MAGIC: I didn’t have time to post this yesterday … but the Blue Lagoon Restaurant was changed a few years ago to CAPTAIN JACK’S PIRATE RESTAURANT . Could they have come up with a MORE dull cliche name?? Sounds like a seaside tourist fish n chips stand name…..
And I’ll try and keep this short : but originally Tokyo Disneyland was going to have a Grand Canyon diorama as part of Thunder Mesa and Western River Expedition ( yes in Tokyo) but when the development stalled on the American version , it was removed from the master plan …. Big thunder was in its early development by then and had not been an option for TDL . So since dinosaurs were going to be fabricated for EPCOT , it was decided to duplicate everything and build a Primeval World in the space that would have backsided the unbuilt Western River show building. PAris does play the Grand Canyon Suite … and Tokyo DL’s Primeval World still plays the edited clip from the New York World’s Fair Magic Skyway .. “FOREST PRIMEVAL” this edited track used to play at Disneyland from 1966 till about 1993.
I always like your Snoozers™, Major. They are never a bad thing.
I think that first photo might have been taken from the PeopleMover. I think if it were taken from the Monorail, there would be more of the railing in the shot. It just feels like the photographer was much closer to that guard rail. But who really knows for sure? It could have been taken from a wayward Skyway bucket!
Mike, thanks for that info, regarding yesterday's comments. Captain Jack's Pirate Restaurant. Blech! How unoriginal, indeed! I'm surprised they haven't done the same thing to Anaheim's Blue Bayou restaurant. Nobody at the company seems to care about history or tradition anymore. After all, the French Market is being renamed Tiana's Palace, or some similar kind of dreck. I just don't get it. If they insist on shoehorning characters into every single corner of the park, then why not just add Tiana's name to the name that the restaurant has had for the past 57 years and call it, "Tiana's French Market." Why change the name completely? The people in charge are just not right in the head, I tell ya!
Love the illumination on the second image. Very nice.
TokyoMagic!, yeah New Orleans Square has sunken into the practice of shoehorning characters into the area. First, Jack Sparrow, then The Nightmare Before Christmas and now Tiana. No "land" is left untouched. The French Market was my favorite Disneyland restaurant too.
Ken, they ruin everything, don't they? There...that felt good. I hadn't said that for a while. Like maybe a couple weeks!
I agree with TM! that the first photo was taken from the PeopleMover. The Monorail beamway doesn’t have a handrail. What you are seeing in the second shot is an optical illusion; the PeopleMover and Monorail used separate track platforms that paralleled in a few places, and here the Monorail beamway is obscured by the PeopleMover track structure, making it look like the Monorail track has a handrail. If you follow the track to the right edge of the picture, you can see the Monorail beamway just below the PeopleMover track and can compare the different designs and thicknesses of the support pylons. See this overhead image for a nearly-contemporary (1970) view of the track layout.
I initially thought the same monorail train (Ol’ Bluie) appeared to be in both photos, but I’m not sure that the timing would have worked out that way to still have such similar shadows in both images. I guess if the second shot was taken while exiting the subs, then the photographer hurried over and got on the PeopleMover, it could be.
These pictures are proof that Tomorrowland (and, really, any land except Fantasyland) can capture the public’s imagination without any non-Dinseyland-specific IP of any kind. They don’t have to ruin everything - it’s a creative (or maybe “destructive”) choice.
Mike, your mention of the original music for Disneyland’s Primeval World dredged up a memory of the current music, which IIRC is based on Bernard Hermann’s score for The Mysterious Island. We were riding the DLRR and the soundtrack ended up out of synch, which had us emerging from the Primeval World show building and arriving at Main Street Station with the music that accompanies the battle between the Stegosaurus and the Allosaurus rex still playing on the loudspeakers. It was civil twilight, that moody 30 minutes or so after the sun has set but the sky is still light, full of dark shadows and things you think you see out of the corner of your eye, and the ominous music gave the entire scene a malevolent undertone. Mrs. Chuck turned to me and whispered “It’s Disneyland of the Damned.”
Captain Jacks Pirate Restaurant, sponsored by Jack Daniels. It completely makes sense, and why not. Does the official drink need to be rum? "Snoozers Tokyo Magic." I can't figure out how to do the tiny TM letters in my posts, but I am assuming that that's what it stands for. I recently contemplated a ride on the subs being there was no line and could walk right on...but then thought...steep steps, small seat, confined space, a proliferation of IP, and big bag of "nope"...leave it for the kiddie winks, and perhaps for next time. The subs take up a big piece of real estate. As much as I don't want to TRE it, it screams to bean counters to be TRE'd. Low capacity, real estate, not enough plush or churros....the subs COULD be tomorrow...and what IS the TOMORROW of sea exploration? Seems like the sky is open to hundreds of possibilities. I would like a "Man From Atlantis" ride, and Patrick Duffy could do the ribbon cutting. Regarding people not giving respect to history: #1: how sad: they are missing out. #2: I don't think they even want know history, or want to care quite honestly. My next door neighbors son cares a lot. John Hench and Marty Sklar are his heroes. He is very much the exception and not the rule. As I was searching for small remnants of the House Of Tomorrow foundations, (now Pixie town or something...) and employee asked me "Are you looking for something?!" I flatly replied, "yes. The House of Tomorrow." She looked at me like I had three heads and was speaking in tongues. No clue, no idea, didn't care, didn't want to care...just a blank stare with no verbal reaction. When a Disneyland 3D model was in the Opera House last year I pointed out Ron Dominquez's house to the employee standing there. I suppose her job was to give guests information regarding the model she was standing in front of. She said "oh..ok...who was that?" I was delighted that the house was immortalized, and she was totally oblivious, but happy for the information. She divulged that no-one gives them any information and they have to seek it out for themselves. I think current management just might be delighted that employees just show up and don't try to sue them for various HR issues. The workplace has changed dramatically. I try not to judge too harshly as I am also one of those exceptions to the rules, and a grumpy old man. and "Fantasyland is closed Tokyo Magic". (someday I will figure out how to do the small letter TM.) Thanks for the Snoozers this fine Sunday Major!
Major, I’m agreeing with Chuck & Tokyo here, photo 1 is from the PeopleMover, and the spot is shown in photo 2.
Another sign that the track is the PM, PM pylons are thinner cross-section and have no taper, while monorail pylons are thicker, taper somewhat toward the top, and have a “Capital”, fatter cross-section at the very top. Both types can be seen in photo 2 as the tracks diverge to the right.
Photo 1 manages to miss showing almost everything interesting seen from that vantage, kind of sad. The swirling waters of the bubble curtain are an attractive pattern. The semaphore flags spell out “do not promote Paul Pressler”.
Photo 2 is interesting for showing the solution to the puzzle of photo 1, and the crazy shirt on the embarking guest. That back country of intertwined ride tracks is classic Old Disneyland, five attractions, maybe six if you count the subs, each being part of the draw for the others.
Thanks Major, a good look back today.
JG
Well, now I’m going to amend my comment after studying both some more. Photo 1 “could” have been taken from the monorail, shooting “through” the guardrails on the PM track. I still think it’s more likely taken from the PM due to the relative slowness of that ride makes it easier to frame a shot, although being hurried might account for the poor framing. So it’s a toss-up.
JG
JB, yes, based on that first photos, the Sub ride involved listening to depressing music and listening to crying fish. You know how sad a crying fish is! I guess the warm sunlight helps some in the second photo, at least it isn’t cold. Maybe the fish were chuckling by that time.
JB, THANKS!
Mike Cozart, it really is amazing how uncreative they can be with ride names sometimes. Maybe their reasoning is that a name has to make an impression right away, guests don’t want to spend one second having to think about what it might be. And you are right, it does sound like a fish and chips stand. Hopefully they have fried clams! Thank you for the info about the various dioramas… I guess I feel lucky that we get both the Grand Canyon AND Primeval World. I can hear that “Forest Primeval” music in my head, very “Rite of Spring” (intentionally I’m sure)!
TokyoMagic!, it’s so funny, I looked at today’s post early this morning and thought, “Of COURSE that one was taken from the Peoplemover, what dummy wrote that text?”. And then I remembered that it was me. So I fired myself, before rehiring myself for a lower salary. Meanwhile, I told Disney they should rename the French Market “Tiana’s Squat and Gobble”, but i don’t think they got my memo. “Tiana’s French Market”, hey, I like that! My guess is that the current people in Imagineering would rather just erase any reference to the past. For some reason.
K. Martinez, it seems like that time of day might look interesting from the portholes. How much of that warm light would filter down to the “depths”? Not much I suppose. I wish Stitch was in New Orleans Square, they could put a pirate’s eye patch on him.
TokyoMagic!, saying TRE is satisfying. Like a good burp.
Chuck, yeah, I can’t explain it, I must have been drinking cough syrup when I wrote that post. Cherry flavored of course, it’s so delicious. Sometimes I like to pour it on vanilla ice cream. An optical illusion, eh? I say it’s witchcraft! Or maybe you’re right. It’s so hard for me to say that. Because, like the Fonz, I hate being wr—… wr—… wrong! I guess that overhead image is pretty good evidence though. I thought that Old Bluie was at the station in the first photo too, I don’t know how long it took for the Monorail to make a full circuit, but it can’t be more than 10 minutes? The shadows shouldn’t be that different. I think. Of course at that time of day, with the sun so low, shadows do change dramatically in a hurry. OK I’m convinced! Convinced of what? I don’t know. I need that “Mysterious Island” music to accompany me whenever I walk into a room.
Bu, I guess we can be grateful they didn’t spell it “Cap’n Jack’s”. On his boat, the S.S. Guppy. Rum is OK, it goes well with fruit, so that we don’t have scurvy. Because Vinnie Barbarino says that “Scurvy Isn’t Cool”. Thanks, Vinnie. I did go on the Subs in January, it was a walk-on first thing in the morning. So surreal to be going down those steps for the first time in about 10 years. As I’ve said before, I am basically glad that we still have a submarine ride, but the Nemo version just doesn’t cut it. The lagoon is beautiful, but they’ve reduced the size of it so much. And the dark ride scenes, I don’t know, maybe I’m too old and jaded. And yes, speaking to an Imagineer, I was shocked to hear some pretty negative things about John Hench and Marty Sklar, both of whom I’d always lionized (based on PR of course). I can’t blame a cast member for being ignorant of an attraction that was probably gone 30 years before she was born. Based on what you said, it doesn’t sound like DL history is taught at all, which is kind of a shame.
JG, I think I must have written that post in a hurry (it happens), because now it all seems so obvious. I never really observed the difference in the pylons for the Monorail vs. the Peoplemover, but you’re right, they are quite different. I have tried to grab photos from speeding Disneyland vehicles before, I always hope they will turn out, and they usuall don’t. In fact I even tried to grab a nice photo of the Disneyland RR as it turned to the right, and even though my rear end never left my seat, I got reprimanded. “Please stay in your seat!”. I cried. Loudly.
JG, I do think that the first photo was taken from the Peoplemover, that guardrail is so close to the photographer. If it had been from a Monorail running parallel to Peoplemover tracks, I’d think that it would be quite a bit further away. And you are right, it’s a lot easier to take photos from the slow Peoplemover.
Major, I have to disagree with your last comment to JG. On my last visit, I wasn’t able to take one, single, clear photo from the PeopleMover.
Afternoon musings: I forgot a point about the PeopleMover...(not the fact that it will never return), but you truly got to SEE things on the PeopleMover. On a recent trip around Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom on the DLRR...I was thinking "wow...you don't really see much on this trip"...Main Street Station: Magical of course. Adventureland: The back side of jungle, and a hidden black panther that looked like it came out of the statuary center at Roger's Gardens. New Orleans Square: Very lovely with the old Frontierland station and the now charred ex-bathrooms. (but you see all this whilst stopped) Also you see some charming vantages of New Orleans Square, the Haunted Mansion...river...some nice old trees (again...all whilst at the station)... Rivers of America: you do get to see a little here...the new Native American animatronics...a keel boat...the back side of Tom Sawyer Island...maybe a ship or two...Toontown/ Fantasyland: not much: weird Amphitheatre, Small World for a NY second...(which is lovely save the stupid Small World Toy Shop)...the Round House (if you crane your head a 180)...then a whole lot of the back side of Tomorrowland Tree Forest. Grand Canyon and Primeval World is awesome, and for the love of all things good and holy please don't TRE it. I miss hearing the dogs barking in the kennel as you approach Main Street...now gone forever...do people keep their puppies in the car?! It would be nice to have a new Kennel at the car park..with a cute little doggy park adjacent. When the train first opened it seems like you saw more land and vistas and the adventure in the adventure was riding a old steam train. I think the guests use it now as a transportation system: the DLRRPeopleMover. I used it as a quiet moment of reflection and introspection. Marche Francais de Tiana's. That would be more appropriate, but I'm not sure it fits the current demographics. (Odd observation: I rarely have heard a foreign tongue in the park lately...one family was confused about Sleepy Beauty Castle. I said "this is a very nice place" in both French and Spanish, but they didn't understand. They followed me up anyway as I gave it a "thumbs up", (after all it is my #1 attraction.) Other than that, I heard Spanish probably due to demographics and near-by Mexico. Perhaps Disneyland has lost it's European market to Paris (?) The park used to be like a United Nations of peoples, Sailors, Nuns, boys scouts, brownies, and many from all other branches of the military, both domestic and foreign. Ok...done now.
I love any photo of Disneyland. Especially Snoozers because they bring out the best comments from everyone.
Mike,...Captain Jack's Pirate Restaurant, huh. I Googled it and love the way it looks inside, but the name drums up Long John Silvers - paper pirate hats and greasy hush puppies.
"I'm surprised they haven't done the same thing to Anaheim's Blue Bayou restaurant."
TM! Rumors are swirling that there will be changes. Makes me very sad.
"The people in charge are just not right in the head, I tell ya!"
TM! Yesterday in the mail, my dad received his "Walt Disney Company" stockholders proxy card (he owns a whopping 3 shares) to vote on the Disney Directors. Hmmmm. Who should we vote out???
"Mrs. Chuck turned to me and whispered “It’s Disneyland of the Damned.”
Chuck, Hahaha! (I also laughed at your PeopleMover comment.)
Bu, I'm grateful to you and Mike and the others who keep the Disneyland 'past' alive, here. I learn so much from all of you.
Thinking about riding the train, walking through SBC, riding the subs...all sounds so nice and relaxing for a Snoozer Sunday...thanks, Major!
Chuck, it sounds like you don’t believe in magic, wishes, and dreams!
Bu, I have never felt dissatisfied with a trip on the DLRR! Except that I wished it lasted longer, maybe. True, there are a few stretches where you don’t see as much, but I see enough to keep me happy. As for that black panther, it does seem odd that they haven’t found something a little more interesting. But… it’s gone in seconds. All of those Mardi Gras parade pieces that are seen near New Orleans Square are only slightly better. Frontierland has lots to see. I’ve never cared for that Fantasyland amphitheater, but others love it, so I guess I’ll shut up. I don’t remember ever noticing the barking dogs, I guess they were all good boys (and girls) when I was there. No troublemakers. I hope that people don’t keep their puppies in their car, but at least those massive parking garages keep the cars out of the sun. The DLRR is always a nice option when one wants to relax, and of course it does actually function as a way to get from one side of the park to the other. I hope you didn’t actually say something weird to those people, such as “My legs are very hungry”.
Rumor has it at WDW that Pecos Bill's Tall Tale Cafe will be getting the Tiana's Palace makeover. That one doesn't really bother me, since for years it's just been The Home of the Adequateburger.
Ken, I've been saying for years that The Nightmare Before Christmas needs its own attraction so it'll stop butting into the Haunted Mansion. It could take you through all the holiday lands from the movie to avoid being seasonal.
Melissa, that idea makes waaay too much sense. So of course, it'll never get done. But Disney would be missing a bet with all the IP and movie tie-ins. And think of all the plush and special-flavored churros they'd sell!... Woulda, coulda, shoulda.
Lou and Sue, I feel like I’ve heard about some terrible restaurant near Disneyland that had a name very much like “Captain Jack’s Pirate Restaurant”. Obviously it isn’t exactly the same - I think I heard about it on a podcast, as one of those “places not to eat”. Oh man, if they make changes to the Blue Bayou in Anaheim, I’m truly going to be sad. Can’t they keep their hands off of something that is already perfect? I get those proxy cards, and never know who to vote for (or against), they are all just names. I’d love to hop on the train right now!!
Melissa, I didn’t know that WDW was getting some Tiana makeovers as well. Though I suppose “Splash Mountain” rides will all be getting “fixed”. “Adequateburgers” are often standard at Disneyland, though I think I did once have a pretty good one at the Hungry Bear restaurant. I’d sort of love it if “The Nightmare Before Christmas” got its own stand-alone ride, but… I’m not holding my breath.
JB, the problem is that so many people LOVE the “Nightmare” version of the Haunted Mansion. As I’ve said many times, I don’t hate it, but I do hate that it is there for something like five months out of the year.
Sue, I had not heard about those rumors regarding Anaheim's Blue Bayou. Heck, why don't they just gut the restaurant and sell plush toys and "bubble guns" out of that space?
Funny, I also have three shares of stock! A friend bought me one share as a gift, back in the nineties. Then a few years later, the stock "split" and I ended up with three shares. I remember when the proxy card came with Michael Eisner's name on the list. It may sound childish, but it gave me great satisfaction to vote for him to be removed (or not vote for him to remain) and then to see that my vote was in the majority, and he was actually voted out. Of course, he still stayed on as CEO, but not for too long after that.
I agree with Melissa, there should just be a separate "Nightmare" ride. Then people could enjoy it all year long, without having it intrude on the Mansion. They could put it where the Winnie the Pooh ride is and just get rid of the Critter Country name altogether. Does anyone know if it will still be called Critter Country, after the Tiana makeover of Splash Mountain?
Major, I don't think Tokyo DL's Splash Mt. is being converted to Tiana. It's been a while now since I've visited that park, but as far as I know, they also still have the "auction scene" in their POTC, and the native scenes in their Jungle Cruise. Since the park is not actually owned by Disney, I think it is 100% up to them, as to whether or not those kind of changes will be made.
@Tokyo, DL Anaheim Critter Country will be renamed "Bayou's Edge".
JG
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