Monday, June 20, 2022

Almost Rejects

It's inevitable - in any batch of vintage slides, there are going to be some examples that disappoint, to one degree or another. Sometimes they are beyond saving, and the scans go right into the trash. But other times, we still might glean something of value from these flawed images. All of these are from "sometime in the 1950s".

Here's a shot taken as a guest waited in the queue for the Skyway. They noticed that the elevated perspective provided a pretty interesting view of this corner of Fantasyland! I can only assume that this was right after the park opened, since the seating near the "Fan 1" snack bar has no diners. Even the Dumbo ride (what we can see of it through that tree) looks pretty deserted at this point. 


This next one was snapped spontaneously from the Disneyland Railroad as it rolled through Frontierland. Looking toward the River, we see both Keelboats moored by the shore (out of service during the "slow months"?). To the right are what appear to be fishing nets propped up to dry, an interesting detail. The far shore of Frontierland is softened by the morning haze.


And finally, here's a real oddball shot looking out of one of the old yellow passenger cars of the DLRR, back toward Main Street Station (which has Christmas ornaments on the roof). Is that a drinking fountain near us? If so, it can only be there for the comfort of the guys working the trains, thirsty work I am sure. 

35 comments:

Nanook said...

Major-
Is that hazy outline in the 2nd image of a possible Matterhorn-? The Plaza Pavilion/Tahitian Terrace building looks so tall from that angle.

Thanks, Major.

JB said...

In the first and second pic, I love the misty quality of these photos. It creates a whole different mood in the Park. Sort of wistful, and sort of hopeful of fun things about to begin.

In the second pic, is that the Dominguez palm in the background, above the fishing nets?

In the third pic, those aren't Christmas ornaments, Major. This is super-rare photographic evidence of the giant ladybug infestation that plagued Disneyland in the early years. This is why the killer swans were introduced to the park, which of course, created other problems.

Nanook, I saw that hazy outline as well. I was gonna guess the Plaza Pavilion. But it seems too tall.

It's a good thing you didn't reject these, Major. They're really quite nice.

K. Martinez said...

Love the misty/hazy quality to these pics and how it mutes the color. Glad you decided to share them with us. Thanks, Major.

Stu29573 said...

These are actually very nice. Peaceful and....zzzzzzzzzzz..
Uh, wait...what?
Sorry!
JB, the Exploding Animitronic Ducks (EAD) were introduced to control the swans, but became an even bigger issue. Of course it doesn't help that THEY DON'T DIE! ...of course they do explode, so, there's that...

JG said...

Major, I feel a strong affinity for these images, as I am also a Vintage Disappointment, Flawed, but hopefully still of Some Value.

The first photo, from an angle no longer accessible to guests, shows a bit of the brown wall in the backstage area that we examined in a couple of past posts. The Castle battlements rise in the distance like towers of Dream, as hazy as both Vision and Memory. A single trash can, in plain green, marks this picture, for want of other details, to be no later than 1957 or early 58.

The second photo has a wealth of detail for the experienced viewer, the Dominguez Palm and the Matterhorn make appearances, while the fishnets, never before seen, are maybe a scrim hiding work on the docks? Someone (a CM?) can be seen through the mesh to the right. And benches, on which to sit and enjoy the view, because you didn’t have to run to Wookie World to stand in line.

The third photo in a never-before seen view underscores the Hard Facts of America that Disneyland is famous for describing; everyone gets thirsty and facilities for the staff must be concealed to prevent Bad Show. I wonder if this is still in place?

Thanks Major, a good start to the week.

JG

Steve DeGaetano said...

I don't recall the drinking fountain being there in more recent years. I can attest to the importance of hydration when working on a steam locomotive, however. Those cabs can get upwards of 140 degrees in the summer (in our locomotive I need to use a candy thermometer to tell the temperature; thermometers from the hardware store don't go high enough).

DrGoat said...

I like the "misty/hazy" quality too. They are really very evocative. The first pic really is quite cool.
I do think that is the Dominguez palm. It's in the right place.
I'm with the group. Great start to the week. Now I'll just float right into that first photo and see you there shortly.
Thanks Major

DrGoat said...

Forgot to say how cute Sue and the Major looked in the previous post. Charming. Lou looks a little like Charles Laughton and David's Dad definitely approvals of his new recruit.
Again, wonderful.

Nanook said...

Major-
HERE's another view of those "fishing nets". (Thanks, Daveland).

Chuck said...

Blogger ate my homework from this morning. Exceptionally displeased. Not something you want to come inside to after working outside all morning in the hot sun cutting up tree debris.

Let’s see how much I can remember and see if the recollection perhaps improves my mood…

First picture - can’t get enough of that Eyvind Earl Fantasyland color scheme. Note the Mickey Mouse Club logo sign in front of the Mickey Mouse Club Theatre.

Second image - benches! A sight for sore eyes (and legs and feet), although the Huck Finn at Tom’s Landing is setting off my CDO.

Third photo - note the shovel to the left of the drinking fountain. It would appear that the toilet facilities for the train crew were as bare-bones as the drinking fountain.

Nanook, I think that hazy outline is a tree rather than the Matterhorn. Compare with this 1960 image from Daveland.

JB, sharp eye - I had totally missed the Dominguez Palm, but there it is, big as Dallas.

There - I feel somewhat redeemed…that’s about 98% identical to what I wrote this morning and I didn’t even have to go back and refer to the photos. Not sure what that says about me: eidetic memory…or life bereft of any meaning outside of this blog? Something to ponder over lunch…

Major Pepperidge said...

Nanook, gosh, I’m not sure about the Matterhorn… I thought these slides were pre-1959, but looking at the photo, I just can’t tell for sure. I put the original slides away many weeks ago, so I can’t just take a look at the mounts. But I think that they are in those mid-50s red Kodachrome mounts.

JB, I admit that I like the misty quality too; I’m assuming that this is more of a winter weather condition than just plain old smog (like we see so often, especially in older photos). I believe that that IS the Dominguez palm, good eye! I forgot about the ladybug infestations, or maybe it’s more that my brain has blocked it because of trauma.

K. Martinez, for some reason that second photo really does it for me, with the unusual view of a side of Frontierland that we don’t often see like that. I’d love to be right there!

Stu29573, everyone told Walt not to build those exploding animatronic ducks, but he wouldn’t listen. Mr. Lincoln was originally designed as a faceless killer android, to address the duck problem, but luckily that one worked out better.

JG, I’d like to imagine that I have some minor collector value, if nothing else. I might have too much “battle damage” though. I didn’t really think about the fact that the first photo could not be duplicated today, but of course the Skyway Chalet closed many years ago - and is now gone, sadly. So this is a second vote for the Matterhorn. Maybe it IS that mountain. I wonder if it is still under construction? I suspect that we are seeing a guest (or two) through those fishing nets, but it’s hard to be certain. I don’t ever recall seeing that drinking fountain before, but of course most photos don’t show that portion of the railroad track.

Steve DeGaetano, you’ve come up with a brilliant way to save money… have the railroad crew make candy while they are operating the train! They can sell genuine “railroad fudge”, candy canes, and so on. I can’t even imagine working inside something that is 140 degrees, it sounds like torture.

DrGoat, that old Fantasyland looks pretty appealing there - maybe partly due to the lack of crowds, but I’d give anything to be able to walk around and explore. Imagine having a camera to capture all kinds of little details that have been forgotten over the years!

DrGoat, glad you liked yesterdays “Pop post”!

Nanook, if I wasn’t so lazy, I’d like to go through my images of that area to see how long those nets were there. Not very long, I think.

Major Pepperidge said...

Chuck, you should do as Sue and I do, type your comments in a text document. If the comment goes to another dimension, all you have to do is copy & paste it again. It might save some time and frustration. I agree that the colors used in the original Fantasyland are just right, a combination of colorful and subtle. And as far as I can tell, hardly any purple and pink! Tom and Huck were friends, I’m sure Tom didn’t mind if Huck used his landing now and then. I really hope that shovel wasn’t used for bathroom-related issues! I was thinking that the “Matterhorn” looked too small, but lenses can play all sorts of tricks; I really do think that these are pre-58, though. I think that once you have typed out a comment, it is at least temporarily pretty vivid in your mind and you can recapture most of the info. That’s my theory, anyhow!

Anonymous said...

Chuck, “CDO”? I Googled it and came up with “Collateralized Debt Obligation.” Nope, can’t be right. OCD?? COD??

DrGoat, your comment made me smile, and reminded me that when my Dad was in his late 50s-early 60s, he resembled Sydney Greenstreet. My mom and I tried once, unsuccessfully, to talk him into wearing his fez and entering a local Casablanca look-alike contest. He would’ve won something.

Major, I like these images.

—Sue

Anonymous said...

Major, if all these are from the same batch of photos, then definitely pre-1958 based on the green trash can.

Trouble is, I am drawing a line on the aerial photo and I can't make the Plaza Inn entry occur to the left of the Tiki Room roof, but the Matterhorn would be "way off" to the left. The Plaza Inn entry is flat on top, not pointed, and the Plaza Pavilion doesn't have a tower higher than it's roof ridge. But that tower has to be one or the other, I think. I'm stumped.

I'm really sick of work right now.

JG

Bu said...

Lots to look at today especially in picture #2. The nets confound me. I have to say it's the first I ever saw them and at first glance I thought they were some type of barrier, construction wall, etc. A very large installation to say the least. I grew up around fishing docks and I've seen the real thing. They do have to "dry out" so they can be repaired and worked on. An odd choice, but I suppose it does make some sort of thematic sense. I never realized that the Plaza Pavilion roof was so tall. Now I know. And we can see it's Tiki twin right behind him. The Dominquez Palm is the "the one". Again, didn't think it was that tall either as trees have no scale. Apparently fishing nets have no scale either, but they may have scales....I forgot that those Keel Boats had masts. No wonder it capsized. The Keel Boats look quite authentic, and I suppose they actually were. I am not a fan of haze in Southern California. I am a "squinter." I don't really like sunglasses as I feel like I'm being suffocated. The haze in the photos takes me back to those very spots in Disneyland where I was squinting and a little miserable about it. Notice the real orange tree at the base of the chalet. Oranges in Switzerland! As I've said before, there has GOT to be a great grand child Disneyland orange tree somewhere. And I want a seed! The orange tree in the photo does not look happy. I'm sure it's sun was messed with as it's happy on the right, and a little barren on the left. There are a couple of window looking things on top of Peter Pan/Mr. Toad...but I think they are AC units (?) They remind me of the security tower on the back side of Pirates, within the berm, but overlooking the parking lot. You would see security there with their telescopes and high powered viewing devices. I wonder if it is still there? That is why people who went out to have tailgating/bong hitting/shennanigans were always caught. The Mickey Mouse Club theatre is/was actually a good size theatre. I've talked about the Disneyland Drama Club doing their shows in there. I should have done more snooping when I had a chance. There was probably an Annette trinket in there somewhere. I would actually not be surprised in the least if that railroad area was used for other things than drinking. I have faint memories of that water fountain. And faint memories of other things...but not needing a shovel. Sorry for the graphic nature. The area looks kind of guarded. Any Retlaw guys on here that have the scoop? Excuse the pun. I think I'll end on that.

Nanook said...

Major-
I'm recanting my vote for the Matterhorn, and instead am moving it towards the 'cupola' on the Swift's Market House. Although the actual
cupola appears more squared-off, I'm blaming the rounded-look in today's image on all the haze...

Andrew said...

I think we can see the Skyway tower on Holiday Hill in the first shot. Great mysteries and fun comments!

Chuck said...

Sue, CDO = Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. You have to put the letters in alphabetical order.

Anonymous said...

Chuck, haha!
I have a couple books from my early childhood that I put my name in: SSUnA. I thought you were supposed to group the ‘similar-looking’ letters.

—Sue (f/k/a SSUnA)

DrGoat said...

Sue,
How delightful! I'm sure Lou would have won that Sydney Greenstreet look-a-like contest plus we would have some very neat photos to look at.
Major, That thing right behind your Dad's nose looks like one of those bean bag ashtrays that were around then.

Melissa said...

I love the composition of the first shot. The lamppost in the foreground gives it that little something extra.

More from the Celebrity Lookalike Dads department, I always thought my Dad could've doubled for Jack Nicholson.

JB said...

Stu, do EADs dream of electric sheep? Maybe they eat (besides guests) animatronic bread crumbs tossed into the ROA.

JG, "I am also a Vintage Disappointment, Flawed, but hopefully still of Some Value." Aren't we all. Well, maybe not Andrew.
And JG has gotten all Poetic Dreamer on us.
So that hazy outline IS the Matterhorn? It seems too symmetrical

Grumpy Chuck, I'm not convinced that hazy outline is a tree. The jury is still out. Yeah, I figured that was the Big D (Dominguez palm). Like you said, it's in the right place.

I guess these photos were taken before the Robinsons' emigrated from Switzerland to sunny California. I don't see the Treehouse.

Major, I think it's mist, not smog, as well. It has that SF Bay Area morning mist quality.

Sue, "CDO". Not only is Grumpy Chuck obsessive compulsive, but dyslexic as well. No offense intended to anyone with those issues. We should all laugh at our shortcomings as often as we can. Life is more fun that way.
Maybe Lou would have won a trip to Disneyland!

JG again, I was thinking that the Matterhorn would be "way off" to the left as well. Plus the date is wrong, like you said. Maybe it's a combination of the Plaza Pavilion roof plus a tree in front of it (or behind)?

Grumpy Chuck again, Ah. Alphabetical order. Now it makes sense.

Melissa, I agree; the lamppost makes it more than it otherwise would've been.

Major Pepperidge said...

Sue, I figured Chuck must mean some variation of “OCD”! Ha ha, does Lou have a white suit, like Sidney Greenstreet wore in “Casablanca”? I thought you told me that Lou had a fez!

JG, yes, these are all from the same batch. I didn’t know you could tell that photos were pre-58 from the trash cans, or has that been discussed here before? What’s the deal? If I have time later today, I’ll see if I can research the rooflines and figure out what’s going on.

Bu, I like the fishing nets as props, they imply a life to the land beyond what we happen to be seeing when we are there. “Some other day, there are men out there trying to catch catfish, trout, and great white sharks”. I’m still unsure of the Plaza Pavilion ID. There was another tall palm tree in Adventureland, something I learned from Jason Schultz, I think they called it “Ella’s Palm”. Again, if I was home I could go and check, but for now I’m going to go off the top of my head. I like SoCal haze if I have to be outdoors a lot, but for photos you can’t beat bright sunshine and a clear blue sky. I love the little orange tree - Charlie Brown’s orange tree! I really think Disney blew it when they had the chance to make cuttings of some original orange trees. Graft them on to sturdy root stock, and sell them as “Disney Valencias” or whatever. I’ll bet a TON of people would have bought them. I understand why Disneyland needs security to be unobtrusive, but somehow the idea of them watching with high-powered viewing devices is kind of icky. How am I supposed to dispose of my loved one’s ashes now?

Nanook, ah interesting! Somehow the shape makes more sense to me now. I like it!

Andrew, you are right! So definitely pre-1959!!

Chuck, I see what you did there. :-D

Sue…. “SSUnA”?? I love it.

DrGoat, YES, back from the bad old days when my dad smoked. At some point we thought he’d quit, and then I went to visit him at the Navy base, and there he was, puffing away. It was a shock!

Melissa, that first photo would look good on a stereo slide. Not sure I’ve ever seen one from that angle though. Jack Nicholson, that’s a cool person to look like!

Anonymous said...

JB, I have just checked the sight line to the Market House as Nanook suggests, and it would be further to the right than the (not)Tiki Room, also that MH tower has the mansard roofs right against it, the tower doesn't stick up like the shadow in the photo.

Wikipedia says that the Matterhorn construction began in 1958, and we know the summit was finished first and the plasterwork proceeded downwards. My date of 1957 is not scientific, it is based on my never seeing a Plain Green Trashcan in any photo that I could definitely date any later.

I think we are seeing the summit of an unfinished Matterhorn in 1958 and that my date of the start of Decorative Trashcans has to be updated to that time.

Also, going forward (since I have tried and cannot go backward) I am going to follow the example of Winnie-the-Pooh and use Random Capitalization throughout my Sentences.

JG

Anonymous said...

Major, we cross-posted. See my 1957 rationale for the Dating of Cans.

JG

Anonymous said...

OK, here is a Google StreetView taken from almost the same vantage as Photo 2. I hope pasting this link will work.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.811799,-117.9217064,3a,30.2y,90.23h,93.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfPNiWVEPmSuffERKyVRlzw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DfPNiWVEPmSuffERKyVRlzw%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D202.71017%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

The Matterhorn appears just over the end of TSI and the Dominguez Palm is just visible immediately right of the light pole. We can't see the Tiki Room/Tropical Hideaway because of the trees, but it would definitely be between the two.

Major, I have developed and expounded my Theory on the Dating of Cans here in the comments of these Various Posts, but you are certainly Forgiven for not catching all the Details.

JG

Anonymous said...

Good work, JG!

Fun day! Thanks, all!

—Sue

Chuck said...

Guys (sorry, “Gsuy”), I am going to have to respectfully disagree about that being the Matterhorn in the second shot. Take a close look at the angle from our vantage point with reference to the Old Mill. In today’s photo, we cannot see the side of the mill around the right corner, and the hazy outline on the skyline is to the right of the Old Mill from our vantage point and visible over the top of the Frontierland outdoor eating area.

Now look at this 1960 photo from Daveland ( https://www.davelandweb.com/disneyland/images/4_60_N19.jpg ). In this picture, we can see that side of the Old Mill we couldn’t see in the other picture. The Matterhorn in this picture, while still to the right of the Old Mill from our new vantage point, is to the left of where that hazy skyline outline is in the other picture. Note that the Matterhorn is actually to the left of the Golden Horseshoe, which is to the left of the Frontierland outdoor eating area. Based on that spatial relationship, that hazy whatever it is cannot be the Matterhorn.

If the Matterhorn is in today’s picture, it would be hidden behind the foreground tree on the left side of the picture.

Bu said...

I don't think it's the Matterhorn, but I also don't date cans. Since my marriage, I don't date anyone or thing anymore. In order to date the photo (I don't date photos either...but some people on Instagram do) , couldn't we see when the Builders Emporium style inexpensive "railing" around planters were replaced by something more substantial? I see from the other horrifying "street view" that the lovely New Orleans appropriate railings have been turned into big horsey wall-type-odd-over-built-and-out-of-scale-hideous things. What is wrong with these people? They seriously have no sense of design or harmony in what they are creating. I doubt this looked any better in an elevation, but they did it anyway. Bring back fishing nets and cheap wire planter barriers. Or how about a dirt walkway? Wasn't this a dirt walkway at some point in 1955. I'd rather see dirt. Dirt would be better. A parking lot would be better. Mondays would also be better if it was on another day.

JB said...

Everyone is forgetting: We already established here on GDB that the Matterhorn is on casters. They can roll it from place to place; such as, from Tomorrowland to Fantasyland. I'm sure this accounts for the spatial discrepancy in today's photo.

Anonymous said...

Hahahaha, JB! Good one!

—Sue

Major Pepperidge said...

JB, I guess if I am being totally honest, smog is at least partly “mist”! But I don’t think that the atmosphere in these photos is the thick and chunky smog that we have seen in many other pix.

JG, Andrew pointed out that Holiday Hill is visible in photo #1, and he’s right! It’s way to the left, behind some branches. But if that Skyway tower is there and completely visible, then it means that the Matterhorn has not yet begun serious construction. Otherwise I would have been ready to completely agree with you! :-)

JG, I honestly don’t know if I’d ever known that fact about the trash cans. Maybe it’s been discussed here in the comments! Very interesting.

JG, your link worked perfectly. But… see my previous comment regarding the Skyway tower on Holiday Hill. And I confess that on busy days, I am sometimes not as on top of all the comments as on other days. Today is a “mom day”, so I often have various errands to deal with before I head for home sometime after 9:00.

Sue, you must be busy today!

Chuck, it’s World War III all over again! We can only settle this one way: ROCHAMBEAU - to the death. There are several accepted forms of rochambeau out there, but you know the one I mean. See my comment to JG… Andrew noticed the Skyway tower on Holiday Hill, so… no Matterhorn just yet. I know that’s what you think as well, but I like to tell everyone my opinion, as often and as loudly as possible.

Bu, I know that the Disney folks have to deal with many more thousands of people on a typical day than they did back in the 1950s, but I believe that we can blame “Fantasmic!” for a lot of what they’ve done to Frontierland and New Orleans Square. I’ve watched some videos from the “Fresh Baked” YouTube channel (thanks to Sue, since I’d never heard of that one before), and he’s shown some detailed vids of the most recent changes over there. Can you say TRE? And this was after I already thought it had been ruined. Somehow they ruined it even more. Impressive.

JB, sometimes one of the coasters gets caught in a pothole, and then it is nearly impossible to pry the Matterhorn out of it.

Sue, wait, he was joking?

Sunday Night said...

Bu - "Builder's Emporium". Haven't thought of that place in years.. Didn't they have a cartoon squirrel for a mascot?

Anonymous said...

Major, I may have mentioned Fresh Baked, but I have to credit DrGoat for first telling me (us?).

—Sue

Nanook said...

@ Sunday Night-
Yes - Builder's Emporium had the Builder's Beaver...
HERE HE IS-!.