Big Thunder, July 17, 1980
Here's the last of Lou Perry's photos of the then-new Big Thunder Mountain Railroad - photos scanned by Sue B., Lou's daughter.
Big Thunder had debuted a little more than a year before these pictures were taken... given Lou's interest, I assume that it's the first time he'd seen this attraction with his own eyes. And he was obviously impressed! Just looking at this picture gives a small impression of how complex this ride is.
I've always wondered if the mostly-yellow mine cars were a deliberate callback to the ones in the previous Mine Train Through Nature's Wonderland? Or else it just looked good, which it did. Notice the one train in the distance climbing a lift hill, and the crows (or are they buzzards? I forget) atop the rocks to the left.
It's incredible to think that this attraction is approaching its 50-year anniversary in just four more years!
THANK YOU SO MUCH, Lou and Sue.
12 comments:
Major-
Leave it to Lou to bring even more depth to the already rich-with-details attraction. It's hard to not want to be sucked-in to all that structural goodness.
Thanks to Lou and Sue (& The Major).
That first photo looks like a big pile of
Pick-Up-Sticks, aka Jackstraws. Anyone else play that game? We still have the Jackstraws version of the game, with oodles of tool shaped pieces and other odds and ends, like oars, baseball bats, and things. Some of the pieces are easier to pick up than others.
Major, pretty sure those birds are vultures. We saw them in GDB photos not too long ago. Plus it makes sense that they would be vultures. They're always shown in cartoons as looking down on possible prey, eyeing the prey hungrily.
Are the large red wheels on the train engine actually working wheels that support the train? Or just decorative with the real wheels further underneath?
Many thanks to Mr. Lou, Ms. Sue, and Maj. Pepperidge.
The red “driver” wheels do not actually power the locomotive - there’s no pistons conecting the cylinders to the red wheels like a real steam locomotive would use. The 4 red driving wheels are accurate to the real mining locomotives the big thunder trains were modeled after - they are a combination of several prototype licomotives. The actual big thunder trains are free rolling gravity powered …. EXCEPT when being moved into and out of the station and into the storage barn they use liner induction motors ( like the WDW WEDWAY PEOPLEMOVER) in 2003 Disneyland’s Big Thunder Mr. RR suffered a pretty substantial accident severly injuring many passengers and killing one. The second set of red driving wheels became loose and snagged on the second lift chain …. The loco began to accend the lift chain while the ore cars remained snagged at tge lift base … the chain stopped when the computer detected the problem … then the locomotive rolled back down over and onto the first ore car filled with passengers .
PART TWO:
The guests in the first car were severely injured and one died. When thus occured the computer stopped all the operating trains and animation, just as it was supposed to, but the cast members on big thunder didn’t know what the actual problem was but shortly after the accident guests on the damaged train came climb, climbing up over the rocks and scenery, many of them, extremely bloody and injured, and said that some other people had been seriously hurt. It was then the severity of the accident was discovered. Not too long after this similar accident happened at Disneyland. Paris were the same second row driving wheels came loose after this all existing, big thunder attractions were shut down for steady. Disneyland remain closed for quite some time partially because of the death investigation operations reopened, the other three big thunder trains in Paris, Florida, and Tokyo, but all parks removed the second set of driving wheels, they really only were on there for looks and to help balance and distribute the weight of the locomotive on the rails.. to this day, the second set of wheels are left off the big thunder locomotives making them look odd and tacky. They never did fix the problem and add them back.. after the death on big thunder all the locomotives and or cars were rebuilt today none of the Disneyland big thunder trains are original from 1979. The locomotives on big thunder are there for two reasons, one for historical accuracy, and two to help create more weight at the front of the train so when the train is released off the lifts, there’s enough weight to pull the locomotive in the cars down the rails, creating the roller coaster effect..
Always a pleasure to see Lou’s photos of anything, much less BTRR.
Thanks Sue and Major!
And thank you, Mike for the details of the sad accident. It’s somehow good to know all the equipment was replaced, no one rides the “ghost train”.
JG
Nanook, when I realized that Big Thunder Mountain RR is going to be 50 years old soon, I plotzed!!
JB, hey, no free ads for Pick-Up-Sticks, that company already makes billions! I think we had that game when I was a kid, it came in a can if I remember correctly. I don’t remember Jackstraws. I’m sure you’re right about the vultures, as you said, they love to perch and look at potential prey. I guess I always thought that those red wheels were decorative, but I’m sure we’ll find out!
Mike Cozart, yes, I was sure that the Big Thunder trains had nothing to drive them other than gravity. I definitely remember that horrible accident that resulted in one fatality - and I wonder how badly injured the other folks were? Can you imagine going to a fun day at Disneyland, only for it to end in a death? Unbelievable. And I have to wonder if it was partly a result of the insufficient maintenance that Paul Pressler was responsible for. Like that also-awful Columbia accident.
Mike Cozart, thanks for the details of the Big Thunder incident, I never really knew what happened exactly. I think I knew that one train collided with another, but that was about it. I’m picturing the cast members seeing bloody guests climbing over the rocks. Crazy. I did not know that there was a similar accident on the Paris version of the ride. I doubt most guests even notice that those other wheels have been removed - I admit that I never noticed.
JG, yes, thank goodness they rebuilt all of the Big Thunder trains, think of all those stresses that they undergo for hours and hours every single day. I’ll bet Paul Pressler sleeps like a baby every night, what a disaster he turned out to be.
The 2003 Big Thunder Accident involved only one train - the loco collided with its own train of ore cars ( passenger cars) . However it was the Disneyland Space Mountain accident before 2003 that had two rocket sleds crash into each other. I was actully wotking the night that happend and disney did a pretty big cover up - other than guests seeing most of Tomorrowland evacuated and closed down. There were no deaths but still pretty horrific. Lots of head and face injuries and many guests loosing lots of teeth!
Space Mountain had a shutdown of the attraction because of a guest delay in the station - the whole attraction has to be E-stopped and completely reset so rockets already running thru the course dont start to back up upon returning to the station.
PART TWO :
After all the rockets are stopped at the designated areas the rockets are then individually released and allowed to continue thru the track course one by one … the guests can stay in the rocket in most cases and ride back to the unload with no effects and the lights on. HOWEVER….. that night all the rockets E-stopped except for one and it careened at 34 MPH right into the back of a stopped rocket! It was amazing nobody died.
So Disney had LIFE FLIGHT helicopters from Anaheim and several other Orange County hospitals take the injured guests away. Disney had a fake press release that Michael Eisner and some high end investors /shareholders were arriving by helicopter backstage - this was to explain the helicopters . Ambulances were also brought in quietly. There were no lawsuits and Disney settled quickly with each guest helping to keep the incident under-wraps. SPACE MOUNTAIN ofcouse was closed for several years to build a new track , new rockets , and a new computer system. Around 2003-2004 the undamaged space mountain rockets were auctioned off via the EBAY-DISNEY AUCTIONeers … most selling in the 1,200 to 2,000 range.
Whatever caused the one rocket to fail to stopped is unknown beyond the disney investigators … but Space Mountain was riddled with operational issues after the 1977 rockets were adapted with the headrest speakers. This greatly slowed down the loading and dispatch … because of additional weight of the speakers , cast members loaded all seats except the first two in each car ( the computer is weighing the guests while boarding ) so many times the rockets had to be dispatched with 1-4 empty seats ….after the cast member releases the rocket from the load, the computer does a final overall weighing so the computer can calculate WHEN to release the rocket so it cannot catch up with rockets ahead of it. When working properly the 1977 Space Mountain computer ( 2 of them ) -were called Ernie & Bert , communicated with each other and were aware of each rockets location , weight and speed at each of its many dozens of check points. But this one time was the only time two rockets collided . MAJOR ; good point : during the Paul Pressler ERROR ( era) there was the COLUMBIA death & accident , the DUMBO accident and major injuries , the SPACE MOUNTAIN accident & injuries and the BIG THUNDER accident & death ! There was also 2 DISNEYLAND RR accidents during his regime : a train departing Frontierland Station had the water tower spout collapse down and fall between two coaches … as the train continued the spout broke away and water drain out of the water tower drenching all the guests as the train passed. For awhile the trains took on water with a hose. Another incident had a train enroute to ToonTown have its couplings collapse and snag the track ties … this caused one end of a coach to lift up into the air about 6 feet then completely drop down with a crash ! Nobody was significantly hurt and there were no lawsuits from either accidents - disney compensated the guests in someway …in fact some of the train crews said the guests seemed to have liked the water spray incident ! If i had been on either of those trains i would have grabbed my neck in pain and shock and cried “ ATTRACTION POSTERS !!!!” Lol.
Still think of Big Thunder as a new attraction. I remember a visit when it was still under construction. The peak was in place atop a framework of girders -- they were building it from the top down.
Early on Disney was serious about not letting coaster tracks dominate the landscape. Bobsleds would zoom along ledges of the Matterhorn, Space Mountain was hidden inside a scifi structure, and the Big Thunder mine cars give the overall impression of rolling on solid ground or the occasional bridge. The price of really big coaster thrills is the near impossibility of truly blending into the surrounding theming (unless the theme is an old-timey park or fair), and the views from the coaster itself, while dizzying, will almost inevitably include the mundane real world outside the park.
Mike Cozart, oh OK I guess I misread. I did not know there was a Space Mountain accident! I guess the “pretty big coverup” worked. Imagine having teeth smashed out at Disneyland (or anywhere, but somehow it’s worse at Disneyland).
Mike Cozart, I guess it’s natural to assume that the park has all of the ride functions down to a science, but clearly there is still room for error, either human error or whatever. A 34 mph collision, jeez. That’s FAST. I love how the park had to lie about Eisner and company having to use the helicopters. How could there be no lawsuits?? That’s “Disney Magic” all by itself. Unless they automatically offered each injured person $100K or something.
Mike Cozart, I’m surprised that they never figured out the cause of that accident. You’d think that would be pretty important! I remember the big deal made about the “on board audio”, which I guess was not available on other versions of Space Mountain at the time. Maybe that’s when the Dick Dale theme song was introduced? Ha, I also did not know about a Dumbo accident. I do remember occasionally hearing about somebody getting a foot crushed between a vehicle and the load platform, or some such thing. I *think* I vaguely remember hearing about the Disneyland RR incident, but possibly not. Again, no lawsuits?? Just the way people are these days, it seems impossible that nobody would sue. If they’d offered me the right attraction posters, all would be forgiven!
DBenson, I know, I’m the same way, even now when I wait in line I think, “They did a pretty good job with the theming of this ride”, as if it is a novelty. As for Disney coasters, I personally am OK sacrificing a bit of thrill for the theming, Big Thunder is the perfect example. It’s not the scariest coaster in the world, but it is “just right”. Fast enough and fun enough for almost everybody. I like “California Screamin’”, which had NO real theme, but I have not been on the ride since it became the Incredicoaster. The lines are always too long for my taste.
I'm chuckling about the water tower drenching the folks in the train, but the other accidents/injuries are horrifying. I can't imagine going to Disneyland with your family and friends, and then getting your teeth knocked out -- or worse!
If there weren't lawsuits, I can guarantee that Disney's legal department was very busy preparing the documents for the injured guests to sign, before getting their checks (hush-money).
I'm glad you liked my dad's photos. Thanks for the nice comments, too. And thanks, Major, as always.
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