Two Snoozers
It's time for more Sunday Snoozers; they're not the worst scans, but they are far from the best.
Ordinarily I'd be pretty stoked to have this view (from a slide date-stamped "November, 1974") of the Fred Gurley (locomotive #3) as it rested at Main Street Station, taking on a new load of cattle - I mean, guests - but the backlighting resulted in a very dark image, and that made me cry. Notice the Santa Fe sign - this photo was likely taken a few weeks (or months) earlier, since Santa Fe ended their sponsorship of the Disneyland Railroad on September 30th, 1974. Maybe somebody just forgot to remove that sign, but I doubt it. No free publicity for deadbeats!
13 comments:
Weird. Seems like we just had Sunday Snoozers two or three days ago. Major, did you finally get your time machine working? This week seemed to go by more quickly than usual.
Both photos are "OK". Not great, but not bad. Just sort of 'there'.
Much of the color has been sapped from the first pic. There must be a black hole nearby; color is the first thing to go.
The Small World photo is nice, but it would have been nicer if the lighting was sunnier. As it is, the facade looks kinda flat.
I guess they can't all be award winners; at least they're in focus. Thanks, Major.
I think disneyland may not have changed the Santa Fe graphics as quickly as we might expect. In fact I hade a feeling the exit of Santa Fe kinda came as a surprise to operations. Much of the replacement graphics are dated 1974 … and it probably took sone time to change over all the rolling stock and locomotive. And of course the first new Disneyland RR attraction poster : the Disneyland RR Bicentennial Special poster was screened In 1976 ( so was the Jungle Cruise) these were the very first of the smaller / second generation attraction posters.
I can only identify one poster in the tunnel : STORYBOOK LAND … it’s the one in the center … the posters on the left and right I cannot discern… but there’s a chance one is THE MONORAIL. The tunnels are still using the two metal channels with the poster frames slide in … in 1977 the frames you see in the tunnels today were installed.
It finally hit me this morning that my first childhood visit after I knew how to read (I was two and a half on my first visit) was in January of 1975, yet I still remembered it as as kid as the “Santa Fe & Disneyland Railroad.” I don’t think I remember seeing the Santa Fe emblem at Disneyland (it’s not a definitive, standout memory like so many other things are), but I spent a lot of time perusing our INA guides after that visit, and that may be where the association stuck. The Fall/Winter 1974-75 INA Guide (probably printed in late summer 1974) lists the attraction as the “Santa Fe & Disneyland Railroad” (a “D” coupon).” It’s just “Disneyland RR Trains” by the Spring 1975 edition.
Need to go back and look at our few snapshots from that trip and see if the AT&SF logo shows up in the background of any of them.
Mike, what little I can see of the poster mounts in the tunnel has me wondering how they added and removed the posters; it obviously wasn’t by sliding them/in from the top. Was one of the channels hinged with a lock, or did they have to physically remove a channel and then re-mount it afterwards? Or was it some other option I haven’t mentioned? (Please let it be a teleportation spell!)
Thanks again, Major!
Wouldn’t be Disneyland without the trains. Steam, monorails, Casey Jr., mine trains, even the PeopleMover was a sort of train.
Thanks everyone for the timeline on the Santa Fe sponsorship.
I think this explains why I didn’t notice it changed until the 90’s. The change seems to have taken a long time to propagate, and since I didn’t visit at all in the 80’s, it was all done by the time I came back.
I definitely remember the SF logo in the Park, but oddly, mostly from the monorails.
Thanks for these pictures, Major. They are clear enough that I can hear the bell clanging and the announcer voice in photo 1, and it’s always a joy to study IASW. How many variations on white plaster with gold whirligigs and doohickeys can be imagined? Clearly Crump/Blair were up to the task. The trees seem to still be on the facade too. Good Stuff.
JG
Santa Fe is most definitely a Disneyland memory...but not a real stand out one. "Disneyland presents, Retlaw- owned, and sponsored-by Santa Fe". So, was Santa Fe sponsoring Retlaw, or Disneyland...and seems since the Monorail was part of the package, Retlaw getting sponsored makes sense. Did they need a sponsor? I suppose in the beginning the answer was yes. Weren't those train execs like buddy buddy with the boss? Thank God for lawyers. I will repeat that I don't really "feel " sponsorship like back in the day. Seems more like "product placement" overall. Seems like the vines are very grown in there next to the tunnel, and I suppose was also very purposeful. I remember it "viney", but underneath is very cool stone work. I took a photo of the other side where the vines have been trained in espalier, which takes time and patience. They did a good job however, and both the vines and stone really shine this way. I do not consider this TRE, nor "Vines do not have scale". Good for those who can make out the attraction posters...they just look like a smudge to me. I remember looking at this view for an entire days at a time when being "desk lead", and that corner of the Newsstand is also a familiar piece of fretwork. Speaking of fret work: it's a small world is also looking very gold and fretty. Really a brilliant piece of architecture. It's always interesting to note that Small World is just a dark ride in a big non descript warehouse behind the scenes. In fact, you wouldn't be able to tell it from the other big warehouses there behind the berm. You might as well be at a warehouse complex in Pacoima or North Hollywood. Another place with lots of non-descript buildings where a lot of movies are made. Tagging onto yesterday's post: I watched "Marineland Carnival starring the Munsters" last night, and co-starring the New Christie Minstrels. I did see the New Christie Minstrels at Marineland, but after this TV special was made. Show was completely painful. Wow. Maybe Universal was tied to Marineland at that time. Grandpa walking up a tall flagpole then doing tricks. Truly painful. Seals are always funny though, they always appear to be little puppies that follow you around and beg for treats. They look like they have a good time, so I don't feel so bad enjoying it. It was the EXACT same show I saw as a kid...and Kenny Rogers was a Christie Minstrel. Even at the time I thought: "the NEW ones?" "I never heard of the OLD Christie Minstrels". Apparently, they have more than a few Disney and Bros. Sherman connections....Thanks for the snooze this am Major!
JB, ha ha, “there are so many bad pictures on GDB, it seems like every day is a ‘Sunday Snoozer’ day!”. I know what you mean. The train photo could have been very good if taken at another time of the day, and the Small World photo is “ho hum” at best.
Mike Cozart, when we see how quickly Disney removed the “TWA” from the Moonliner (even painting out the name on the posters), I assumed that they would have done the same thing with the Santa Fe name. BUT I do understand that it was a bigger proposition, since Santa Fe’s name was in many parts of the park, and there would be no quick paint-over on the railroad tenders. It would take time to repaint those in a manner that was professional-looking and beautiful. I didn’t even notice the Storybook Land poster until you pointed it out, it’s one that you’ll still see in the tunnels today.
Chuck, I doubt I would have given a thought to the Santa Fe sponsorship at all. I was concerned with candy. CANDY! Actually by 1974/75 I was living on the east coast and was unable to go to the park until we moved back to SoCal a few years later. Not sure I even noticed any change to the trains. You know, because of candy. I love those INA guidebooks, so full of useful information! I have all of them except (apparently) for a rare one that I’m starting to wonder of its existence. I’ve never even seen a photo of one, but a friend insists that it was actually printed. They must be as rare as bronze 1943 pennies! I was wondering the same thing about how the posters were slid into their channels, so I hope Mike tells us!
JG, OK, I agree, Disneyland wouldn’t be the same without the trains, but hear me out… what if Walt had big rig trucks driving around the park? They could toot their air horns, and guests could ride in the windowless trailer, while one lucky guest could ride in the cab. There are some problems to work out, but I think it’s brilliant. I hear a clanging bell all the time too, JG!
Bu, I might have noticed Santa Fe more from the Main Street Station announcement. “The Disneyland and Santa Fe Railway…”. Or something like that. I think I have a vintage station spiel on one of my hard drives, but am too lazy to figure out which one has it. So many hard drives! I’m sure Disney would have loved to have a sponsor to help with the costs of running the trains, I wonder if any other companies were approached after Santa Fe announced that they were done? Probably by the mid-1970s, no railroad company was willing to spend the kind of dough that Disneyland wanted. I agree with you about how the current sponsors feel more “pasted on”, but that might just be because you and I grew up with the older examples. Ivy has a way of taking over everything, I wonder if the gardeners just trimmed it artfully as it grew? No need for any espalier-ing. BTW, a friend of mind has an espeliered apple tree. It’s cool, but odd. Right up flat against a fence. I have no doubt that the big steel warehouse construction of IASW saved them a bundle in the long run. “Marineland Carnival Starring the Munsters”?? Wha? This must have been from the 1970s, it sounds pretty bad. And yes, who were the OLD Christie Minstrels, anyway?
Snoo twoozers, both alike in dignity...
My favorite people in these pictures are: the guy in #1 who's looking down at something or someone out of frame, probably a second child shorter than the one we can see, or the face of Jesus in a pigeon dropping, and Grandpa in the yellow sweater in #2. He needs a matching pair of trousers, like the three people we saw the other day. Then he could be The Man in the Big Yellow Pants, friend to Curious George's cousin Oblivious Wayne.
I have always thought the IASM facade is the best designed entrance of any attraction I have seen. With all the activity and the train also playing a part. It was, and remains, pure genius. Talk about a "weenie". Compare that to the entrance to Pirates...especially as originally designed. I'd have guests coming up to me at the turnstile asking what was inside and if it was worth the cost back in the day of tickets. KS
Major: I know of many examples of sponsorship identities disappearing overnight…. I think some Disney was aware far in advance ….. with audio from the start there is a sponsorship version and a generic track done and readily available for a possible changeover …. But then there’s examples of audio remaining with corporate tags … like “Miracles From Molecules” with Monsanto mention in the unload area … in 1985 a Disneyland historian who was working in Disneyanna told us the music could still be heard with the Monsanto mention … but the volume was so low! Sure enough we were able to catch it with a tape recorder ! This was more than 8 years AFTER Monsanto exited Disneyland!! GO GO GOODYEAR played in the PeopleMover station for its entire existence … almost 15 years after Goodyear was no longer a sponsor. I remember SUNKIST was removed from Disneyland signage overnight … but Carnation lingered a short while . Same with KODAK : it was removed from Main Street and guide maps …. But it took about two weeks for the Kodak picture spots to be changed over …McDonnel Douglas had its identity only partially removed … from the entry spire it took a few weeks …. From the two entry sign portals one was replaced with a abstract meteor design ( the same used on the announcement billboard for Captain EO in 86) and the other was screened over with a giant red blotch … when illuminated at nite you could still see the shadow of “McDonnel Douglass” showing thru. But inside McDonnel Douglas remained on the DC-88 Spaceliner prop and on the mural spaceship .. and till the end of the attraction’s existence…. As well as the pre-recorded default spiel “out McDonnel Douglass Dc-88 spaceliner” ….. but if it was live no mention. The Chevron logo on the Autopia marque was covered with a banner and the lighting cut from it remained for about a week until the newer Honda sign face went up .
I think some of the speed of the changes in the parks regarding termination of sponsorship can also depend on if the company exists or has dissolved …
Not gonna google Christie Minstrels. That takes all the fun out of it.
Faintly remember an old movie about Stephen Foster that showed Mr. Christie and his minstrels as a big pre-Civil War deal, touring the country and making Foster's songs famous.
I remember the New Christie Minstrels turning up on TV shows and the easy listening stations my parents had the car radio set to. Considering something like a century had passed I now wonder if they had even a vestigial connection to the originals. Maybe some descendent of Christie licensed the name. Maybe the name was up for grabs (copyright laws at the time were such that Foster made precious little money off his incredibly popular music) and somebody decided it was catchy.
Anyway, there was absolutely nothing connecting them to a historic minstrel show. No blackface, of course, but also no gaudy suits, no ritual staging ("Gentlemen be seated!") and no jokes. Just a bunch of perky singers, male and female. Think of such outfits as the Mike Curb Congregation and those vocal ensembles who used to be fixtures on variety shows, along with the resident dancers backing up the guest stars.
I remember the New Christie Minstrels doing "Chim Chim Chiree" on a show, and one of the soloists was an Asian-American bass. At the time it was not so much a breakthrough as a bit unexpected.
Major, “there are so many bad pictures on GDB, it seems like every day is a ‘Sunday Snoozer’ day!”. Aww, is that how my comment came across? Sorry if it did, it was unintentional. Especially lately with all the excellent photos we've been treated to.
Melissa made me smile, then grin, today. So thanks for that.
KS, I remember having difficulty locating the entrance to 'Pirates' back in '75. It looked like just another half-open doorway in NOS. I saw quite a few people going through the door and thought, "Oh, this must be the place."
Munsters Marineland on YouTube >>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDaivEJZIpw
JG
I seem to recall it was just a few years ago that a veiled Pepsi reference was removed from the Country Bear Jamboree.
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