Big Thunda, May 5, 1980
It's big, it's thundery, it's the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad! You can count the number of times it has appeared on this blog on the digits of one Venusian hand (I tried it). Today's photos are from when the ride was only nine months old (it debuted on May 2nd, 1979), so it had that "new mine smell" that we all love so much.
The Disney folks excelled at making ramshackle wooden buildings, and this one seen from the queue is appropriately weathered and rusty. That upstairs room is MY apartment, but I didn't think it through. Don't have an apartment as part of a roller coaster. A word to the wise. Meanwhile, the "hoodoos" of Bryce Canyon glow in the late afternoon sunlight. Nothing could truly replace the Mine Train Through Nature's Wonderland, but I really do like Big Thunder.
You have to be pretty quick on the draw to capture a runaway mine train with your camera. Our photographer did an especially good job, considering that he was using a pinhole camera (built using an oatmeal carton). A snow-capped peak in Switzerland contrasts with the orange sandstone of the desert. I can almost hear the whistle as the train passes by!
28 comments:
Major, I agree with you about the ramshackle station building. The rusty corrugated steel roofing on the left, the irregular roof planks on the right, and those gloriously uneven shingles. I like how they used 'old lanterns' to illuminate the Big Thunder sign.
The rocks in the foreground look very real; are they?
Somehow the Matterhorn looks less real juxtaposed against the orangey Big Thunder rocks. I tried to read the sign on the little structure to the right, but no amount of enlarging and sharpening could reveal its secret message.
Beautiful lighting in both of these pics. Thanks, Major.
Big Thunder DEFINITELY had a “new mine” sent …. I recall the smell of creosote, wood stain and paint! I LOVE IT!! Creosote was all over many of the used timber and railroad ties used for shoring and planter edges … creosote is a scent that will soon be long lost to history!
I miss Mine Train Thru Natures Wonderland too, but I really do love Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. It was that little model of “thunder Mesa Runnaway railroad “ located inside Disneyland Showcase back in 1973 that cemented my love of Disney theme parks design and model making!
JB: that Thunder Ridge building was a re-used Rainbow Ridge town home building. It was recently completely rebuilt a few years ago. The sign reads “ LEATHER GOODS” along the lean-to section read “ BUCKSKINS OUR SPECIALTY “. On the window facing the porch was once lettered on the pane glass “ BOOTS & SHOES -FIRST CLASS WORK”.
By-the-way…the Disneyland Sign Shop is no longer on property - it was ousted for WOOKIE WORLD … but the sign shop has on display that original 1979 loading depot sign “BIG THUNDER MOUNTAIN RAILROAD” …. Although it had been painted and restained many times before it was eventually completely replaced.
Major, make that September 2, 1979! It was supposed to open sooner, but they had problems which delayed the opening. I don't remember what those problems were, but maybe Mike can chime in on that.
JB, those rocks in the foreground of the first pic, are all fake! I got to see Big Thunder's construction "up close and personal" on several occasions. My friend's father worked on the project, and he took us with him to work, several times. I took some pics, but I still need to post them!
By the way, we can see one of the animatronic vultures perched on a rock, in that second photo. It's above the passenger wearing the blue shirt and sunglasses....actually, it's above the person next to him.
I've never been on Disneyland's Big Thunder, but I've been on The Magic Kingdom's plenty of times. It goes the opposite way, which means you occasionally go back in time (fun fact!)
I used to say Big Thunder was better than 6F0T's original mine train in every way, except for not having the plunge under the lake at the end. Apparently Disney agreed and when EuroDisney came along, there was the lake plunge!
Major-
Why is only one woman facing the camera in the 1st image-? Did she not get the memo-? (Or have the pod people taken over her mind...)
Thanks, Major.
Always was a favorite, plus the Barbecue.
Wow TM, what a treat that must have been. Would love to see the construction pics.
Nice photos, Thanks Major.
All my best buildings were ramshackle wooden shacks. Seriously, this one looks much like part of a barn we had on the farm, well done Disney. Don’t ask how it smelled.
Major, your second caption reminds me of the man killed by a weasel. He was crossing the train track and didn’t hear the weasel.
Thanks for the great shots. I do love BTRR but nothing can replace the Mine Train.
JG
Nobody can shackle a ram like Disney! I'm beginning to suspect my upstairs neighbor is running an all-night roller coaster in his apartment.
Like Stu, I've only ever ridden the Florida version, where the train runs the other way. Must be some addendum to the the Coriolis effect they never taught us about in school because we apparently needed yet another unit on Eli gol-dang Whitney and his consarned cotton gin. I remember being so nervous the first time I rode BTMRR because my Mom fainted on it when I was a kid, but it was so delightful I got right back in line. O yee of little haw.
"The rocks in the foreground look very real; are they?"
They may not be rocks, but they are real! Yuk yuk, I kill me.
JB, I’m guessing that those rocks are the product of skillful craftsmen, since they look like the other man-made rocks nearby. But they are definitely convincing! It’s not surprising that the snowy Matterhorn looks out of place in sunny SoCal, but I still love it.
Mike Cozart, is creosote really a scent that will be lost to history? You can still buy railroad ties at hardware stores, those things are treated with creosote. And don’t forget telephone poles. Probably other stuff too! Small children who won’t behave. Coat ‘em with creosote, I say! I’ve always liked Big Thunder, but miss the MTTNW, Disney will never build ride like that again. Everything’s gotta have thrills.
Mike Cozart, thanks for the info on the sign, I sure couldn’t read it. Because I can write, but I can’t read. I imagine the sign shop workers are not thrilled about being moved from their old haunts.
TokyoMagic!, now I can’t recall where I got that May 2nd date… it wasn’t Wikipedia. Oh well! Thank you for the correction. I think that the problems were that the workers were suffering from ennui. It happens. Wow, I’d love to see your photos of Big Thunder construction!
TokyoMagic!, I see it now!
Stu29573, I miss the slow pace and beautiful scenery (some of the best the Imagineers ever did) of the old Mine Train, but I know that many people prefer the fast thrills of Big Thunder. I do like the idea of plunging under the lake (river?)!
Nanook, she’s the only one that DID get the memo… everyone was supposed to be staring at us!
DrGoat, I guess that the construction period for Big Thunder must have been during a time when I couldn’t go to the park as often, it surprises me that I never saw any hints of the building of that ride.
JG, going back to the Old Mill on Tom Sawyer Island, the Imagineers had “old decrepit wooden building” down pat. I’m sure they used techniques that were common for movie sets. That is a sad story about the man and the weasel ;-).
Melissa, ha ha, yes, upstairs neighbors like to throw cinder blocks and ship’s chains around, and occasionally drop bowling balls. It’s required in their lease agreement. Now I’m wondering WHY the Florida BTMRR runs the opposite direction?
Melissa, nyuk nyuk!
Disney is really good at building structures that look like they're rustically collapsing with sinking rooflines, uneven shingles, and rusting metal but don't look decrepit or dirty. I look at BTMRR and TSI and wish I could get to "universal theory of ramshackle buildings" so I could understand how to restyle my house like that.
Mike, that creosote smell brings particular memories for me. My dad was a shop teacher and we'd spend several summers building a deck and a dock using cresote to waterproof the wood.
Dean Finder, you should have me work on your house, it will have that rundown, ramshackle look in no time! My grandma's property had a stable where my mom kept her horse (back in the 1950s) when the San Fernando Valley was much more rural, and it was built from creosoted wood, so that's what I always think of when I smell that aroma.
Mike and Dean, We have a bush in the Sonoran desert called Larrea tridentata, or what everyone calls the creosote bush. It's everywhere. One of our favorite plants because after a summer rain, there is a wonderful smell that permeates the whole desert. One of our favorite scents. That smell even feels good on a visceral level. Wonder if it's similar to the creosote smell that you remember.
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I don't need a lot of thrills these days...the less, the better. I thought that Big Thunder had an appropriate balance of "pretty" (the little town, the rock avalanche, the rainbow pools...all the throw backs from it's previous resident) and "Thrill": the curves and swirls and choo choo this and choo choo that. I think I've told the story about selling picnics to corporations at Big Thunder Ranch in my brief stint in group sales...that was an easy and fun sale- too bad we weren't on commission...It was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The ranch was fun and sweet and as an animal lover, it was fun to wander over there on lunch and pet a couple of creatures. Not everything needs to be in 3D on a billion dollar scale. Mickey Moo was cute, but I thought it was odd selling ribs next to Moo's little corral. What an idyllic life for an animal to live at Disneyland so coddled and loved by everyone. Today, I'd much rather pet a cow than go on a roller coaster. Back then, we would sit "up" in the seat so the safety bar would look like it was right up next to you...but it wasn't. Then you sit back and enjoy the spills and chills. We would be sooo thrown around that ride like a rag doll. In light of events that happened after that time in my shennanigan life...it probably was not a good idea to do that. I liked the splash at the end, but was disappointed that it wasn't real like the Matterhorn. It was a good visual effect, but did not have the tactical impact of the serious splashdown on the Matterhorn, or the splash down on Pirates. As a kid we were all waiting to get drenched on ANY ride...getting wet was FUN! Today: getting wet is not fun. Having soggy underpants is not fun. Sitting ringside at Shamu is not fun. Wet is ONLY fun on a beach in Hawaii, with attractive cocktail hostesses handing you lovely tropical drinks with umbrellas and those cherries that I am sure cause cancer in some way. Trooping around Disneyland in wet clothes was a badge of honor and bravery...40 years ago. Thanks for the rootin' tootin' memories.
Mike, yeah, I thought the structure was probably repurposed from Rainbow Ridge. Thanks for the signage explanation.
Tokyo!, I pretty much assumed those rocks were fake, it's the Disney way. They sure did a good job on them!
Seems like an odd place to put an animatronic vulture. I doubt that the passengers would even notice it there, unless the train goes really slow at that point. I would think it would be more noticed and appreciated if it was in the queue/ pre-show.
Nanook, that woman is smiling, so she's not a pod person. Pod people don't smile. (It's a well established fact.)
JG, if that 'joke' is any indication, we don't have to ask how your barn smelled. ;-)
Melissa, you got me thinking, what is the origin of "ramshackle" anyway?
Let's give it up for the comedy stylings of "JG and Melissa"! Appearing nightly throughout the month of June.
Major, the Matterhorn blends in just fine when it's surrounded by the little alpine forest. It's only when it's against the red rocks that it looks out of place.
The next Disney food sensation: Creosote-coated kids! Tastes even better than smoked turkey legs!
DrGoat, I'm not in love with the smell of real creosote, but you make me want to inhale the fragrance of those creosote bushes, just to see what I've been missing.
Bu, yeah, spending the day in soggy underpants isn't my idea of fun either.
I've bloviated before about rides that made you feel you'd BEEN somewhere. Big Thunder Mountain definitely qualifies. Sure, its predecessor was a more visually impressive experience, surrounding you with complete environments. But Big Thunder maintains the idea of being entirely within its created environment. Any time you're not looking at specifically Big Thunder scenery, you're still looking at in-the-ballpark Frontierland.
Most modern coasters are huge, industrial-looking tracks fronted by a themed load area. The experience is all about the the scale of the drops and the G force, with little or no concern about views of parking lots and backstage areas -- a bit of a letdown if the preshow was impressive. They're like theaters with majestic Victorian lobbies and dull, undecorated stages. Maybe the acoustics are swell, but where's the Show?
The Tron coaster coming to Orlando is almost an abstraction -- will there be any real attempt to build in any of the movie story? But it looks promising since it's still a full created environment, and not just a bare thrill machine.
Bu, I agree, for a roller coaster, Big Thunder has a great amount of theming that makes it feel like it belongs in Disneyland. My nephew was mighty scared to ride it for the first time (I think it was his first roller coaster), but he loved it, and wanted to go again right away. Meanwhile, the scary coasters at Magic Mountain still scared him, enough so that he decided not to ride at the last second. As for petting zoos, who doesn’t like to pet a nice goat? Not sure what else they had there, except for “Mickey Moo”, the cow with the Mickey-shaped marking. And they probably didn’t want you petting that. It was even fun to watch the kids, they were so delighted. I’m not happy about getting drenched on any ride; it takes forever to dry out, and the socks never quite do dry. A river-rapids ride at Magic Mountain got me so wet that it looked like I’d just jumped into the river and climbed out. I’m astonished that my phone still worked, somehow. Maybe if I was seven years old, I wouldn’t mind being soggy all day. I wonder how many moms bring a change of clothing so that the kids can be dry after Splash Mounntain?
JB, how about creosote-flavored turkey legs?! You’ll taste them (and feel them in your guts) all day.
DBenson, in recent years it seems as if old, beloved rides have been removed to be replaced by something less wonderful. But I can’t complain too much about Big Thunder, it’s just the right amount of thrills for almost every age, and who doesn’t like a nice cavern with rainbow pools? It’s sort of a combo of some of those classic Knott’s rides (the Log Ride and their Mine Train), only you get the fun of speeding up and down hills and around corkscrew curves. I like the glow-y appearance of the Tron coaster (based on images that I’ve seen), it’s very much like Space Mountain, which isn’t a bad thing.
JB, If you could bottle the smell of the desert after a rain, you would be a rich man. Some say it even has beneficial physical effects.
"petrichor
There is a scent that fills the air after rain falls. This scent—known as petrichor—may be described differently around the world, because it comes from the oils secreted by certain plants in the area. Arizona's after-rain smell, however, is one of the most popular and well-known scents around", so says Google.
Creosote became illegal to produce in 2005. The sale of existing items ( telephone poles , old railroad ties, railroad trestle bents, dock piles etc) that had been treated with creosote was supposed to have become illegal in 2021, but for some reason it has been extended till 2023.
Modern Railroads in the United States have followed Europe and Japan and used high-strength cast concrete railroad ties. Historic and theme park railroads may continue to use wooden ties but not treated with creosote. Railroads with existing wooden ties will be replacing their wood ties with the concrete versions systematically.
I can’t tell you what telephone poles and pier pilings will use ..
Incidentally the new track on the Walt Disney World railroad is using concrete castings to have the look of wood.
So yes, the scent of real creosote - like whale lamp oil and lead based paint will become a memory of the past.
So I guess the term “creosote” is still used for a wood preservative but doesn’t actually contain the creosote and tar but a mixture of pentachlorophenol, chromated copper arsenate and a few other preservatives. So that must be what’s on the telephone poles and current wood ties.
The smell of creosote reminds me of warm Summer days in the 70’s and so many neighbors who used old railroad ties for landscaping . It also reminds me of visiting old ghost towns and mining structures up in the gold rush county. Myself and neighbor kids used to have small handfuls of the metal tie markers that were spiked into the wooden tie by the railroad for identification … our dads would pry them out and give them to us as the ties were being used up in the landscaping project.
When I was really young in a CCD class ( after school Catholic Church lessons) an instructor passed around a spike like mail and said that was like the type of nail Jesus was nailed to the cross with ….. I though it looked like the railroad tie marker nails …. And for a long time Jesus was nailed to a cross made from wooden railroad ties like the ones on our yard……. And had Jesus been crucified on the wooded ties in OUR yard!??!!
I also remember being told in school that before the dinosaurs most of the earth was covered in oceans ….. I remember begging my dad to let us dig for pirate treasure because of the oceans were once everywhere … pirates must of dumped treasure all over!!
As a kid I had a wild imagination; I’d take 2+2 and get 12!!
The West Coast (USA) was mostly underwater when dinosaurs were tromping around. I bet there's TONS of pirate treasure just awaitin' to be dug up here! WHERE'S MY SHOVEL!
When I take 2+2, I get 22. I guess I'm not as imaginative as you, Mike.
DrGoat, I’m sorry I accidentally missed your earlier comment! I don’t know if I’ve ever smelled a creosote bush, though I’ve heard of them. Weren’t there some planted in the Nature’s Wonderland desert? You’re lucky to have that experience!
DrGoat, “petrichor”, what a great word. New to me! I wonder if any company (or person) HAS tried to duplicate that scent?
Mike Cozart, thanks for the info about creosote. I’m sure that they will find something else that will work just as well (or better) for telephone poles and pier pilings, though it seems like anything that would be that resistant to mold and pests would have to be pretty nasty. Maybe worse than creosote?
Mike Cozart, I love it, another GDB digression where I learn something that I never expected to learn. I’m sure “pentachlorophenol” is serious stuff, but “copper arsenate”, keep away! I’m unfamiliar with metal tie markers for railroad ties, are they marked with some kind of code (to indicate where the ties were located)? My guess is that the basic design for a metal spike has not changed much in thousands of years, so who knows, maybe the nails used for crucifixions (so gruesome) were essentially like railroad spikes. I used to have a book (“Strangely Enough!”, mentioned here before) that had tails of hidden pirate treasure, and of course I dreamt of finding a hidden cache of gold and gems!
"Nanook, she’s the only one that DID get the memo… everyone was supposed to be staring at us!"
Major, your comment made me think of this photo that you posted on GDB 1/16/12. Your original comment, on that post for this picture, still makes me laugh (readers will just have to look it up, if they don't remember your original comment) ;o) HERE'S THE PHOTO!
Back in the 1980s and maybe 1990s, Arizona Highways magazine used to have a page or two, near the back of each magazine, that was dedicated to details of hidden treasures in Arizona from the 1800's, with lots of historical information. Supposedly all true stories, if I remember correctly. Does anyone remember that? I used to enjoy reading those stories.
My goofy cell phone and blogger would not communicate, today. I wanted to mention, earlier, how much I was enjoying all the funny comments. Soggy drawers, upstairs neighbors dropping bowling balls, and everyone's comments had me laughing all day. Thanks, all!
We had a bunch of old railroad ties around the place when I was a kid, so hot creosote is definitely the smell of summer. We used to joke that petrichor was the smell of worms, because you always saw a lot of worms after the rain.
Major, all about tie date nails here ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_nail ).
Loving everyone’s comments today!
Major, much like quicksand, buried treasure is far less common in my adult life than I expected they would be in my childhood.
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