I have two less-than-perfect scans for you. But they're not "SNOOZLES™"! It takes a trained eye to tell the difference, but I am an MIT graduate, so you know you are in safe hands.
First up is this regrettably-blurry photo (dated "June 1958") featuring the Viewliner, as it sat at its little station in Fantasyland. I love the Monorail, but have to admit that the Viewliner looks very appealing, with the cheerful salmon-orange paint (remember, the Tomorrowland Viewliner train was painted sapphire-blue), and the charming landscaping of early Disneyland. Notice that several grown men seem to be particularly entranced by this attraction!
Next is a somewhat odd photo taken out in the vast parking lot, circa October, 1979. Did the photographer like the bus (perhaps that's how they got to the park)? Or did they want a photo of the Monorail track, even though no streamlined train was passing? Or maybe the Dodge pickup truck is theirs. We'll never know! But i still kind of like the photo in spite of everything.
Maybe one of those "grown men" is Lou Perry! Sue has told us how much he admired the Viewliner. And since the photo is blurry, we can pretend that one of them is indeed Mr. Perry.
ReplyDeleteThe old Skyway buckets are gliding overhead. One, in blurry bronze, another in blurry blue.
Oh, and a precognitive vision of Space Mountain is peeking through the trees on the right.
I spent several hours trying to decipher the text on the side of the bus..... nuthin'. I'm as perplexed as you, Major, as to why this photo was snapped. Just when I decide that the pickup is the focal point, I change my mind and think it was the Monorail track. The bus comes in third in my book.
Thanks for the Not Snoozles, Major.
JB, my dad's the first one I looked for, even before I read your comment. My parents went to Disneyland in June 1956, so it's possible they are wandering around, nearby, in the blurry background. Yes, my dad LOVED the Viewliner. When 'they' got rid of the Viewliner, that was the beginning of 'TRE' - per my dad.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Major.
Oh, darn, I got the year wrong....Major's image is from 1958. Hmmm....I'll have to check to see what month my parents were there in 1958....will be right back.
ReplyDeleteApril 1958. So, never mind.
ReplyDeleteSue, we can always pretend. :-)
ReplyDeleteMajor-
ReplyDeleteThat's a 1970 Dodge Truck.
Thanks, Major.
JB, absolutely!
ReplyDeleteBy any chance, could that say "Fun Bus" in wonky lettering, on the side??
I thought the same thing as Sue....that the bus has "Fun Bus" on the side of it. And it certainly does look like a fun bus. I hope there was a D.J. aboard at all times. And a light-up dance floor.
ReplyDeleteTM, I think you're getting confused with "The Big Bus" - that also had a swimming pool.
ReplyDeleteApparently, it is a "Fun Bus":
ReplyDeletehttps://antiquecoachexcursions.com/about-our-coaches/
TM, yes! And not to be confused with THE BIG BUS.
ReplyDeleteSue, back when "The Big Bus" was being made, my grandfather worked in a building across the street from one of the filming locations. He walked over there on his lunch hour to check things out, and someone was handing out metal toy busses as a promotion. The toy bus however, was not a miniature of "The Big Bus." I think it was a miniature of a bus from whatever company's bus was used to make the fictional vehicle. I can't remember the company right now, but I know it wasn't "Greyhound." I still have it and the original box that it came in! I should get it out and paint it to look like the "Fun Bus." Or the Partridge Family's bus.
ReplyDeleteGood job, TM! You spelled "busses" correctly. I was reading something today on the internet and they spelled it "buses." I just now Googled the correct spelling, and it appears "buses" is now acceptable. Apparently the rules have changed. So now, "buses," as in "fuses," is also correct. Go figure.
ReplyDeleteNanook, you have an excellent command of the English language...what is your thought about this?
Sue, yeah....go figure! I just checked too, and apparently "busses" was the preferred plural of the word, up until 1961. But I wasn't around yet in 1961. Maybe I was using "busses" in a previous life? I think I remember Shirley MacLaine telling me that it was still acceptable.
ReplyDelete"Busses" may still be acceptable. Language is in constant evolution, so what is wrong today is the vernacular and "proper" tomorrow: even words that are made up. The more you say them, they more they become real. That being said: I never see the dent, or the fudgie, but I see Space Mountain. Sometimes in the morning when I am traveling to the train station, there is a building in the distance that is very similar in shape and size to the Matterhorn: so if you look really quick...it's a memorable little nod to traveling down the 5 and seeing the actual Matterhorn in the distance. The Skyliner is super cool: not sure if it is so "futuristic", but I like it a lot and would like one in my backyard. Was that station ultimately moved to further out in Tomorrowland to become THE train station? I have many photos of it (the current TL Station), and it's exactly the same: even the color: a little slice of yesterday, still alive in Tomorrowland: those fences too: and it looks like Tomorrowland becomes Fantasyland with the change in fencing. I remember the Fun Bus, although it is fuzzy: I must have had a "Fun Bus" brochure in my collection as I very much remember the logo. Not sure why this photo was captured: seems odd...but ANY photo of the parking lot is AOK with me. More photos of the parking lot please! I like the old school Parking Lot letters: don't know why the letters had to become characters: perhaps they were more memorable to guests who couldn't remember their letter. If you take a photo: you will remember where you park! And perhaps THAT is why this photo was taken...predating smart phones by decades: who knows? I don't think they had the "one hour photo" in these times in the park...it seems crazy that there were Fotomat booths in so many parking lots in the day. I think this would be a strange phenomena to today's people: to only buy film, and drop off your film to be processes...in a drive up....I wouldn't mind a Fotomat hut in my backyard either: a ticket booth for the Viewliner? Thanks Major for the trip down the bunny hole!
ReplyDelete“Flawed but OK”…thanks for naming a post after me!
ReplyDeleteBlurry as that first image is, I can still read “TWA” on the front of the Flight to the Moon building. Those are actually the only letters I know.
Sue, your parents may not have been physically present when this photo was taken, but they were there in spirit.
TM!, thanks for saving me from having to do the research. Now I'll have to think up another excuse for being late for work.
And “busses” is a perfectly cromulent pluralization of “bus.” “Buses” doesn’t make much sense to me; I want to pronounce it “byooziz” to rhyme with “fuses” or “muses.”
Bu, the Tomorrowland Viewliner and SF&DLRR stations were similar but different structures. There is a photo somewhere in the Major’s collection showing them both, proving their co-existence without breaking the Space-Time Continuum in the process.
Thanks again everyone!
PS - thanks for the subtle correction in yesterday’s comments, Mike. I indeed meant ”automobile colors common in 1965” but got that all garbled up with the 1967 date of New Tomorrowland.
I can remember actually riding in the Viewliner - especially I recall that all the train doors opened at the same time.
ReplyDeleteThere is a slightly clearer shot of the salmon-colored version here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/58619817@N02/27647914547/in/photolist-2oqfHYb-2nt9eHb-2i46erH-2oiaWAA-2jnDTsJ-2iyPwbY-2n6vVQL-247bf6z-2kTTYnX-2mfTudM-2ijzeBB-QG5Edi-26FmSk5-2ijNzqW-2jNRCco-24USvgt-252r9D1-27YPvEd-J89MKR/lightbox/
In the Viewliner pic, I am noticing the perfunctory little screen at the end of the load area, as if the guests had sense enough not to wander out into the landscaping. Today this would require much more elaborate deterrents, up to, and including constant surveillance.
ReplyDeletePhoto 2 is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, stuffed into a puzzle, a veritable turducken of uncertainty.
I’m going to guess that none of the “possible” focal points was the intent of the picture, but rather, the general atmosphere of the Old Parking Lot, which is perfectly evoked. I love this picture, and I can almost smell the bus diesel exhaust and the hot dirt-oil combination of the pickup cab.
Thanks Major! As long as your photo examination degree is not from Harvard, no one will question it.
JG
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ReplyDeleteMajor, I have read that the Tomorrowland Viewliner was the red/salmon color, and the Fantasyland train was blue, which to me seems counter-intuitive.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Major, and in photo number one I *do* like the charming landscaping.
ReplyDeleteJG, I too noticed that piece of fence to keep guests on the platform. I especially noticed the Viewliner staion white fence, which seems to be of the style of Canal Boats and others
I'd gladly buy an illustrated book titled "Early Fences of Disneyland -- How They Were Designed and Constructed"
(did Disneyland make prototype fences, like they did with the famous prototype wall?)
JB, that would be so awesome to see Lou in one of my slides! I would love it. Check out that blurry bronze Ditzler color on that gondola, it looks like something an icy beverage should be served in. Amazing that you had a vision of Space Mountain, you must have had some of the Spice from Arrakis. The text on the side of the bus says “Fun Bus”, I have another photo of somebody waiting at the Disneyland Hotel, and a sign is next to them, they are waiting for the “Fun Bus”.
ReplyDeleteLou and Sue (this is for the next three comments!), your mom and dad must have gone to the park in 1957 or 1958, because that’s the only time they would have seen the Viewliner (as you know it was very short-lived), so it’s not impossible that he could have been in this photo!
JB, I’m pretending right now!
Nanook, I would love to have a truck like that. It probably weighs a ton and gets bad gas mileage, but who cares.
Lou and Sue, YES!
TokyoMagic!, there was a DJ, and a big hot tub full of suds, everyone had champagne. There used to be clowns, until somebody realized that clowns are scary.
TokyoMagic!, thanks for that link! I only wish the final result still said “Fun Bus”. I’m dumb, when I first read the sentence, “With the expertise of a surgeon...”, I thought, “Why would they need a surgeon??”. Like I said, dumb.
Lou and Sue, believe it or not, I saw that movie in the theater!!
TokyoMagic!, where did your grandfather work? In LA I assume? I hope he didn’t run into any of those Hollywood phonies. Awesome that he got a toy bus, and that you still have it (in the box!), it’s not a Matchbox vehicle? Or is it bigger than that?
Lou and Sue, for some reason, “busses” and “buses” both look incorrect to me. I think we should just have three “s’s”: “bussses”. There, now it’s perfect. Isn’t the term “busses” also a term for kisses? I looked it up: “A buss is a kiss. Leaning down, he gave her a brotherly buss. If you buss someone, you kiss them. He bussed her on the cheek.” You can also buss tables, but why would you kiss a table?
TokyoMagic!, did Shirley MacLaine tell you that in a past life?
ReplyDeleteBu, I don’t like the fact that language evolves, and wish we still spoke like they did in “Canterbury Tales”. It was all downhill from there. I remember when the word “kiln” (in which you fire ceramics) was pronounced “kill”, but now everyone pronounces the “n”, so I guess that’s correct. Skyliner? SKYLINER? Well, there is a Skyliner in WDW, so maybe that’s what you are thinking of. I admit that the Viewliner does not look very futuristic, but it’s still cool, resembling GM’s “Aerotrain” (which was plagued with design issues and was a failure). Tomorrowland Station does look like the Viewliner station, but they are different structures. I definitely have at least one or two brochures that mention the Fun Bus, with an octagonal logo. The parking lot: I’m always happy to have pictures of it, which probably seems nuts to a non-Disneyland person, but what do I care what they think? They can go to heck. Back in the days of the parking lot letters, you got a handout with a crude map of the sections, sometimes you’ll see that the guest marked their section with an “X”. I also remember the tram drivers saying things like, “You are in Lot B, that’s “B” for “Balloo” or whatever. It helped! My mom used to go to a Fotomat in Huntington Beach, the classic little booth in a parking long somewhere. Even as a kid I thought it was a fun idea.
Chuck, If I’d named this after you I would have called it “handsome and humble”! You don’t need any more letters, T, W, and A should be plenty for anyone. I’ve always thought that “buses” looked wrong, but as I said to Sue, “busses” looks wrong to me too. And yes, I was going to mention the photo you referred to, but don’t have time to look for it at the moment, so I figured I’d just not say anything. Typical!
Hogarth, that is some photo! And in stereo too. If you do a search on my blog (the search box is in the upper left corner) you can find some clearer shots of the Viewliner trains here.
JG, it’s true, they almost certainly did not have to worry about guests going where they were not supposed to go. Now, in the time of influencers and TikTok stars, folks will do anything for the clicks, no matter how stupid. Turducken: has anyone actually had one of those? Also: WHY? Your theory about the second photo is as good as any, sometimes folks take photos that mean something to them, and only them.
Steve DeGaetano, you are correct about the colors, and I agree with you, that deep metallic blue of the Fantasyland Viewliner seems more “futuristic” than the salmon color. To me, anyway.
LTL, I feel as if it is inevitable that *some* guest probably kept walking on that gravel past the little fence, but more out of confusion than due to bad intent. The little fence was a way to let most people know that they had to turn left to exit back out into Fantasyland. Hey, at this point, the “Early Fences of Disneyland” book has a chance of being published, there’s no detail too obscure!
@LTL, you’re right, the “regular fence” beyond the station is the plain wood and chain link (!) we see in other parts of the Park. Seeing these common designs make think that some of them might be re-used as attractions were revised. The station metal fence with the mesh panels strongly resembles the pattern of the very oldest of the “3 Fences” that used to extend around the Sub Lagoon. The only bit remaining is between Autopia and the lagoon back in the hinterland.
ReplyDeleteI think that’s a great idea for a book, or at least a short monograph. We should be sure to include the cute little “Ace Hardware” wire fences used on the flower beds, and the semi-circular zig-zag no-sit top rails used at the Mad Tea Party and Dumbo.
Major, I often now take pictures of my rental car in its parking place, so I can remember where I parked and what I’m driving. I also have been known to take a photo of my hotel room number sign to remind me where home is. It’s embarrassing to have to go to the front desk to ask what room you are in, since keys no longer have numbers. But all of this can be ruled out for today’s photo 2, LOL.
JG
I love ow that guy's shadow is tied to the railroad tracks. I hope a hero's shadow comes along and frees it in time,
ReplyDeleteHogarth, thanks for that Viewliner link! Now I have another 3-D Disneyland image to add to my collection. I had to swap them, left & right, to get them to work, but it's an excellent picture. (I use the cross-your-eyes method to view 3-D pics.)
ReplyDeleteJG, "turducken"... Didn't whoever coined that word realize the unfortunate nature of the word? Sounds nasty and dirty at the same time.
Major, yes, I do partake of the Spice. (It tastes a lot like allspice.) I've indulged a bit too much though... the whites of my eyes have turned blue.
And I also saw "The Big Bus" in a theater.
I also agree about both "busses" and "buses" looking incorrect. Silly English language.
JG, definitely the Ace Hardware tiny wire lawn fences would be in the book.!
ReplyDeleteGoogling "Disneyland fence" brings some interesting results... for instance, there's always the detailed -- and labor intensive, per the link -- fence at the Matterhorn queue
Chuck beat me to it: but he’s correct : the VIEWLINER station and TOMORROWLAND DL & Santa Fe stations are two different structures and for a time existed together.
ReplyDeleteIt’s interesting that the first WDW RR Tomorrowland station was going to look identical to the Disneyland version with an extended platform ….. were they planning on recycling the VIEWLINER station in Florida??? In 1974 a beautiful new Tomorrowland train station was designed for the 1975 Tomorrowland…. But it was decided that a train unloading so close to Space Mountain would have caused too much congestion . Neither of the two depots in Tomorrowland were ever built despite having been completely designed …. Just the way of WED.
As the spelling “BUSSES” has fallen out of use …. So too did the correct terms for BUS ( omnibus) and TAXI ( Taximeter /Taximeter cab)…..
ReplyDeleteI take a picture of my parking row when I drive to the parks. Did they have same-day Kodak photo processing in the park? You could take roll of pictures between the parking lot and entrance (attraction posters anyone?), drop it off at the start of your day and pick it up on the way out to find your car. What could be easier? Other than writing it down with a pencil, I mean.
ReplyDeleteI always notice the "unfinished" bits like the edge of the Viewliner roadbed in pictures like this. There are no rough margins like this in today's parks.
I never got past the first 4 letters of Turducken, so I never ate one.
I suggest we import the double-s character from German and spell the plural of bus as bußes (or Bußen)
TokyoMagic!, where did your grandfather work? In LA I assume?
ReplyDeleteMajor, yes...he worked in Downtown L.A., for Southern Pacific. Their offices were located in the Pacific Electric Building (at 6th and Main), which has now been converted into lofts. "Cole's" French dip restaurant is still in the building's basement, where they have been located ever since 1908!
I have some of my grandfather's business cards, so I know which office he was in. I would love to see an old floor plan/directory for the building, before it was converted to lofts, just so I could know which window in the building was "his" for so many years. That might sound silly, but it is something that has crossed my mind when looking up at the building, from the sidewalk below.
I have never seen "The Big Bus," but I have seen stills/screen grabs with the Pacific Electric building in the background. I believe there was a bus station across the street at one time, which has been replaced with a parking lot.
The toy bus is much bigger than a Matchbox car. If I had to guess, I would say that it's about 8" long by 3" tall.
cool info. I found this link:
Deletehttps://npgallery.nps.gov/AssetDetail/NRIS/09000180
... click on the *first* link that says "download this PDF".
my sister took me to the original French Dip restaurant downtown once, so I'm pretty sure it was Cole's. But I just read there are two places in LA that claim to be original French Dip -- the one I went to was counter service and super funky/casual, it was cool.
this was me
Delete