It's time for some more photos from Mr. X; these are "recent", and by that I mean that they were taken 26 years ago. Everything is relative! Mr. X loved seeing big bands at the Carnation Plaza Gardens in his youth and during the time that he worked nearby as a popcorn vendor, so this area is full of warm nostalgia for him.
Here's the festive entrance, it looks nice during the day, but when the sun went down and the lights came on, it turned into a magical place. Old amusement parks all over the country had bandstands and pavilions with music and dancing, and the Plaza Gardens does a good job of evoking that "yesteryear" vibe.
You can't go wrong with red and white-striped umbrellas and that striped cloth tent (not the main tent seen in the previous photo). It looks like a quiet and relaxing place to stop, rest, and enjoy your lunch. It's interesting to consider that the hillside and trees beyond that wall belong to Frontierland; Big Thunder Mountain was surprisingly close.
All is peaceful at this moment, but who knows, maybe a swing band would be performing there later that evening, and all of the couples who love to dance would be out on the floor having a great time! Notice the sign to the left with a mention of the Disneyland Band, they performed there during the day, often. Also, notice the attraction posters along that wall.
MANY THANKS to Mr. X!
This little cul-de-sac exudes gentle excitement and coziness. Set away from the rest of the Park, it offers up one of those unique Disneyland experiences; so rare these days. I think I remember someone here saying that the Plaza Gardens is now a Princess meet-and-greet? [sigh]
ReplyDeleteIn the past, the trashcans used to implore us to "Waste Paper". Now (in 1996) they're more generic... and polite: "Waste Please". They aren't specific as to what we should waste, just waste something... Anything! What if we desire to waste time?! How do we put that into the receptacle? I guess people could toss their wrist watches into the bins. Imagine being the guy who empties the trashcans and finding dozens of $5,000 Rolex watches!
Thanks, Major. And your (our) pal, Mr. X.
In 1996 Carnation Plaza Gardens still displayed vintage - and often long obsolete attraction posters …. But when the WDI screen shop was closed down , the attraction posters inventoried for allocation to all the Parks was cleared out and supplies were sent to Decorating or WDI Show Quality Services and the posters were to be used for display with the parks. Disneyland removed the old large 36”x 54” poster frames from Plaza Gardens and made all new frames for the posters of 70’s - 90’s. So new second generation posters went on display … HOWEVER they were mounted on foam board , screwed to the walls - right thru the poster image …. And NO protective covering like plexi or glass!!! In a few months the posters wer
ReplyDeleteE warped … dog eared and smeared with gum and ketchup. So sad. The posters last displayed included SPACE MT 1977, JUNGLE CRUISE 1976, BIG THUNDER 1979 ( replaced with a SPLASH MT 1990) ITS A SMALL WORLD 1993, AMERICAN JOURNEYS 1987, DUMBO, SNOW WHITE , PINOCCHIO , 1983 , MARK TWAIN RIVERBOAT 1983.
Incidentally , the majority of the inventory for the newer attraction posters never were used as park based imagineers stole them. Tokyo continued to use them …. And Walt Disney World refurbished their poster tunnels and added all new replacement posters …. And sent the used ones to the Kings Gallery in Fantasyland ( their Disneyanna shop was being remodeled) lucky WDW guests who stumbled into the kings Gallery in Cinderella Castle had opportunity to purchase the used attraction posters : $100.00 unframed -( many of the frames were damaged when removed) mounted to plexi … or $125.00 for the poster in the original frame !!!! A total bargain!!!
ReplyDeleteDUMBO ‘56, ROCKET JETS ‘67, PEOPLEMOVER ‘67 …. And on display but not visible in these images was HAUNTED MANSION ‘69 , SWISS FAMILY TREEHOUSE , PETER PAN FLIGHT ‘56, ITS A SMALL WORLD ‘66. These were covered in plexi.
Always loved this quiet corner of the Park during the day and dancing here at night. These pictures show it as i remember it best.
ReplyDeleteJB, Plaza Gardens is now Fantasy Faire, which includes a princess meet and greet, but the makeover was actually quite tastefully done. There is still a large, covered area when I believe they still have bands play in the evenings sometimes. It also provides an additional corridor into Frontierland that sneaks in by the restrooms at the back of Rancho de Zocalo. My understanding is also that a significant number of guests get turned around exiting those restrooms, wandering into the wrong land by mistake. Fortunately, there are enough churro carts to ensure that they don’t expire of starvation while trying to get their bearings in the vast wilderness.
Mike, I have a slide I took in the summer of ‘95 at the Plaza Gardens of a Skyway attraction poster. I think I took it because 1) the Skyway was a recently lost attraction and 2) it showed the old, round buckets. At the time, I remember thinking it was so cool that they were displaying reproductions of historic attraction posters. Interesting to learn that they were actually leftover poster stock. You can also see that I never actually paid attention to the Skyway posters before the summer of ‘95 and had no idea that poster was never updated with square buckets to begin with.
Thank you, Major, and of course Mr. X, who I will call “Mr. Y” to protect his identity.
Hello Major (and friends), Monkey Cage Kurt here, hope you remember me. In case you are wondering...no I didn't pass away, but my dad did, six years ago. I was so distraught at the time and had so many responsibilities I pretty much gave up many things in my life, and that was the last time you guys heard from me. I've thought of you all often over the years and missed being with you and being a part of this group.
ReplyDeleteI was an AP all throughout the 90s. My girlfriend and I enjoyed many an ice cream Sunday at Carnation Plaza back in the day. Always someone playing the piano and a great view of Sleeping Beauty Castle. The most wonderful memories! Hard to believe they tore it down, but then again with Disney as it is these days, it really shouldn't surprise me at all.
I have not been to D-land in coming up on 19 years. Amazing that the annual passes were only $99 for the entire year (minus June), I've certainly heard that those days are LONG GONE.
I remember you Monkey Cage Kurt. Good to hear from you again. Sorry for the loss of your father and for what you've been through. And yes, I had wondered what happened to you. Welcome back!
ReplyDeleteCarnation Plaza Gardens was one of the most magical spots in Disneyland. It was Walt's era Disneyland with the simple pleasures of dancing on a summer evening to the band music. A time and place. I miss it. Thanks, Major.
Hello Kurt, I remember you too, and have missed your comments. My condolences for your loss, you are not alone in those feelings of overwhelm. Maybe GDB will spark good memories for you. Welcome back!
ReplyDeleteI rarely went in this part of the Park, my parents didn’t dance, and I was too dumb to realize the quality of the music played, so I missed almost all of it. I remember a cul-de-sac with a beautiful terrazzo floor and that’s about it.
Thanks everyone for the stories of what it was like for you, helps me understand what I missed.
Also, at least seven trash cans each in the first two photos and six in the third, standing like droids waiting on your every disposal need. No excuse for dropping that hot dog wrapper. JB, if you can buy a Rolex for $5K, grab it.
Thanks Major and Mr. X!
JG
Ahh yes, the Plaza. I'm showing my age here but I remember being dragged here so my parents could listen to bands like Duke Ellington or Les Brown. Looking back I can't really say I was dragged in but I would have rather been on an attraction. Dad and Mom were quite good dancers as well and I think listening (and dancing) was their best part of the day.
ReplyDelete@ Monkey Cage Kurt-
ReplyDeleteOf course I remember you, and miss your comments. Sorry to hear about your dad. Hope to be 'seeing' more of you going forward.
I was a little confused for a moment when you mentioned being "... an AP all throughout the 90's". With Mike detailing the Attraction Posters, I couldn't quite wrap my head around anything else, and was wondering which one you were-! Annual Passholder seemed so ordinary, but...
Thanks, Mr. X and Major.
JB, I am one of the people who usually walked past the Plaza Gardens without stopping. I was always in a rush to get to the rides! Though I do remember thinking that it sometimes looked so deserted that I wasn’t sure if you were even allowed to go in. I wonder if they were serving food at that time? I want to find a bunch of $5000 Rolexes, how do I make that happen?
ReplyDeleteMike Cozart, I have seen attraction posters that were supposedly displayed in the park, and they have been mounted to some sort of board. Can’t recall if it was masonite or what. Do you happen to know if this is how they used to show them? I personally wouldn’t want one that’s been glued (or tissue-mounted) to a piece of very acidic masonite, but that’s just me. Amazing that the newer frames/posters were just screwed to the walls, somebody wasn’t using their brains. People will find a way to ruin stuff!
Mike Cozart, it’s almost funny to hear about the Imagineers stealing those posters. I think by then people had begun to realize that the posters were real works of art. Seems surprising that the powers-that-be didn’t figure out some way of securing the supply of posters that remained. Would I have been tempted to take a few? Hmmm, I’m not much on stealing. But it would have been a struggle to resist! So it sounds like the posters were mounted on plexi? That sounds expensive!
Chuck, it’s funny, I walked right past Fantasy Faire without even giving it a look, it was somehow invisible to me. Now I kind of wish I’d at least taken a glance to see what I thought, the photos that I’ve seen have not inspired me very much. For one thing, I didn’t care for the colors used. I wonder if those bathrooms that you mentioned are some of the prized “hidden” bathrooms that fans love to know about? As for the Skyway poster, I always assumed that they just stopped displaying the old original design after they updated to the rectangular gondolas, but obviously that is not the case. I am sure I would have assumed that any posters on display (like the one in Rocket Redd’s Pizza Port) were repros.
Monkey Cage Kurt, a voice from the past! It’s nice to hear from you. I’m sorry about your dad passing away, my dad died eight years ago (how can it be that long?), so I have a general idea of what you are feeling. In my case, working on the blog gave me something to do to distract my brain from being “down”. But I totally understand your grief, and as I’ve often said, there are many things in the world that are more important than GDB. I hope you are doing better now. I think it was in the early 2000’s that I went to the park with a date, who brought along her mom who happened to be in town. Her mom was actually lots of fun! As soon as she saw the Plaza Gardens at night with a band playing, she grabbed me and quickly discovered that I can’t swing dance. Or dance at all. It was good for a laugh at least.
K. Martinez, I always just assume that people move on to other things, which is not necessarily wrong. I HAVE to be here! ;-) I think maybe my objection to the change from the Plaza Gardens to Fantasy Faire is that it no longer feels like a part of “Walt’s original park”.
JG, yes, I was just like you. It’s funny, I don’t remember ever seeing my parents dancing, though my mom insists that she and my dad used to love to go out and see bands and hit the dance floor. Well, OK! My dad’s parents definitely loved to dance into their 80’s. Lawrence Welk stuff. I thought it was nice that they did that together for decades.
MRaymond. Mr. X has many stories about going to see some amazing bands at the Plaza Gardens, often he would hang around after his shift at the popcorn cart was over just to see Count Basie, or Duke Ellington, or any number of other great bandleaders.
Nanook, I have to admit that I have seen people refer to posters as “APs”, and my brain always thought “Annual Passholders?”.
I just wonder, has it even been discussed where the originals to those posters are these days?
ReplyDeleteAs for Carnation Gardens, it was the perfect setting being at the Plaza as part of Main Street. Though done well, the Princess Greeting area has extended Fantasyland beyond its natural boundaries into what was a Main Street setting. Just my 2 cents. Still, I don't think the wooden structures at the Gardens were meant to last forever.
I am a bit remiss that I didn't spend more time listening to the bands when I walked out of Frontierland to head backstage and 'punch-out'. I did spend a few minutes now and then to see Count Basie, the Duke and others. And a former CM that I reconnected with, who was a kitchen mate at Hills Brothers, reminded me that I'd let him leave early before closing so he could enjoy the entertainment. He ended up a music major and music/band teacher at a nearby district whose bands he'd lead later down Main Street. Funny how things work out. KS
File this firmly under TRE.
ReplyDeleteSo much charm over there then, when music mixed with the smell of ice cream cones and hamburgers (Tony Baxter might have scooped yours!) Plentiful seating and popcorn lights, set along castle parapets, across peaceful waters….plied by killer swans.
MS
Major: over the years the attraction posters were mounted to all sorts of things. The most common were Masonite ( fiberboard ) backings and aluminum backings. And in the early years they were often displayed without any coverings …. ( No glass or plexiglass ) they were made to be cheaply done ( not in quality but in production cost) and if one was damaged a fresh or new poster design could be laminated right over the old one. The attraction posters in the Penny Arcade and many at carnation were left unprotected. There were poster frames as well in certain areas and they did feature glass protection. When Sue shared with the us her father Lou’s amazing photos of the first WDW attraction posters , you could tell they were not covered with plexi or glass. In the 70’s as new smaller size attraction posters replaced the original 36”x 54” sizes ( the last original posters done in 36”x54” was Disneyland Country Bear Jamboree 1972 and for WDW ; A Mission To Mars , 1975 ( this was actually a altered re-screened 1971 Flight to the Moon poster and 2 were done by the WDW sign shop) the new size posters for a short time were mounted to frame Matt board and inserted into the larger size frames.
ReplyDeleteThe majority of the newer size posters were reverse mounted to 1/4 inch plexiglass ( later 1/8 “ ) the posters with the 1/8 “ often featured another plexi panel behind it for support - but not attached created a 1/4” thickness for the frames. Knowing that the attraction posters were going to redesigned in the new size two things happened at both parks :
In 1977 Disneyland removed there entry tunnel old style track and slide poster frames : this featured a bottom and top “rail” that preframed posters could be slid into on either ends : this was a hassle because to change out a poster or add a new one , the workers had to slide ALL the poster over to fit a new one .
PART ONE
Part one continued:
ReplyDeleteSo in 1977 Disneyland installed permanently metal and glass attraction poster frames in the tunnels in anticipation of the new posters … 1976 is when the posters on the floral Mickey fence are removed … except one on each end used to showcase the park’s newest attractions etc. the first was the Disneyland Railroad Bicentennial special … then Jungle Cruise then Space Mountain … then eventually Big Thunder . However Disneyland made a mistake ; they built the new frames in the old sizes …. And it was never corrected. Disneyland was able to continue using old Size posters and new size posters had to be sandwiched in plexi and screwed to walls or matted and inserted into the oversized frames. So while WED was sending Disneyland all new style attraction posters they were not display in the amounts they were intended to be because it wasn’t easy to display them …….
WALT DISNEY WORLD by 1977 was running out of its small amount of attraction. Posters and for a short time there were poster frames with a few old ones … often damaged … then lots of Jungle Cruise , Space Mountain , WEDWAY , and WDW railroad. Centered on Matt board in the old large frames. Then in 1978 WDW refurbished their entry tunnels , removed. All the obsolete 36”x54” frames and installed ALL NEW posters …. Silkscreened ones and lots of lithographed posters until silkscreen versions could be designed . These are known as the “Florida 78’s” dozens of all new posters were created for WDW . Some newly designed like Grand Prix raceway , Its a Small World , Cinderella’s Golden Carousel , WDW Monorail …. And others used 1971 artwork with updates like adding “Walt Disney World” and updated sponsors to the poster art …. Like Diamond Horseshoe Revue , Haunted Mansion, Mickey Mouse Revue , Tropical Serenade …. Etc.
As posters could be redesigned and produced as silkscreens the lithographed versions would be used …. However this ran into ECOT development so sone posters revisions were started but never completed … Haunted Mansion , 20,000 leagues under the Sea , Mission To Mars , Matterhorn Mountain Bobsleds etc.
The last newly silkscreened attraction posters made :
Disneyland: ITS A SMALL WORLD (1993) using EURO DL artwork for Mattel sponsor
Walt Disney World : NEW TOMORROWLAND ( 1994) …. However in 2000 a Tokyo DL 1983 style ITS A SMALL WORLD blank was sent to the Florida sign shop and screened with the new WDW logo to replace the posters with the obsolete Mattel sponsorship.
KS, I agree with you, the Fantasy Faire feels like it is out of place right there on the Plaza. But nobody asked me! I wonder, are there still long lines to meet the princesses? It’s fun to meet a character, but I personally would never wait very long for something like that. The surprise of running into one in the middle of Tomorrowland (or wherever) is part of the fun! As for the originals for the posters, I’ve seen at least one small goache (or tempera) color rough for a Tiki Room poster, it used to be in a fellow blogger’s collection. the posters themselves were printed from sets of different screens, so I don’t know if there are any full-size originals, per se. Interesting that your coworker who was so interested in the bands went into music as a profession!
ReplyDeleteMS, it’s true! i suppose the “gay ‘90s” look with the striped tents was not enough of a theme to impress younger folks. And meeting characters was really a thing for a while - maybe it still is. I remember hearing about how folks would wait for hours to meet Maleficent on Halloween. Only an Annual Passholder would do that!!
Mike Cozart, aluminum backings, that’s pretty cool! Still, gluing a poster to any substrate is a no-no. It’s so crazy to think that any posters were left unprotected by a layer of plexiglass, folks can’t keep their hands (or ketchup or other substances) off of stuff. It makes me realize what a chore it must be to keep Disneyland from getting grubby and dirty! I did not consider that the photos by Lou showed posters unprotected, I’ll have to go back and take a look. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Mission to Mars poster! Sandwiching posters between plexi sounds OK, although moisture might have been a problem. Again, the posters were not considered valuable, so I guess nobody really cared if they got wrinkled or otherwise damaged. And wow, I never knew about the “track and slide” poster frames!
Mike Cozart, I love all of your stories and info about these posters, and wish that they were in that poster book - or rather than you had written it! Imagine how much those frames for the tunnels cost, and then they were the wrong size! What a blunder. And yet… stuff like that probably happens all the time. I still feel like there must have been a better solution than sandwiching the smaller posters between plexi and using screws. But there is probably no real elegant way to deal with it. I wonder if they could have used dry-mount tissue on a rigid substrate? Maybe that would have been too expensive or cumbersome, and it certainly would have stuck those posters on forever. No peeling them off! Thank you again for all of that amazing and detailed info.
The posters that were between plexi were not just “floating” the printed sides are a spray mounted to the plexi- permanently. The back piece of plexi was there as a support and to fit into the depth of the frame. By the 90’s WDW was mounting posters on white “gator” board : a very sturdy expensive foam core. In Florida you can tell the attraction posters being outside - but in the tunnels had problems with moisture and humidity. In the 70’s they lined the edges of the posters plexi with a foil tape ( hiden by the frame moulding) …. But you can tell moisture tended to affect the lithographed posters and the old style silkscreens posters a great deal
ReplyDelete…. Probably why so few survive . The 70’s and 80’s posters screenprinted on tyvek last very well … tyvek is a water proof construction liner …. Almost impossible to tear…. Disney started using tyvek first in 1973 for Walt Disney Story posters … and later in 1976 with DL RR BICENTENNIAL. At some point in the 80’s it became popular enough that tyvek poster inks were offered … a local screen shop near me still sells them
… but the range of colors and effect inks has dwindled ( like the translucent inks used for DL RR steam !!) attractions posters of the 50’s and 60’s we designed to be in expensively made … and if I’ve tore or faded … it didn’t matter ; there were stacks more to replace the damaged one. In the 70’s and 80’s silkscreening was now more precise and technically more advanced ….. but also much more expensive . So a 1976 Jungle Cruise or a 1982 Pirates of the Caribbean needed to be color fast ( slower to fade) and as weatherproof as possible … the synthetic inks and the weatherproof tyvek paper.
The attraction posters had their silkscreens hand cut into rubylith film …. (In graphics have cutting and trimming that itself was a art form !!) Masonite panel stencils were cut using full size drawings as a guide .
In the early 70’s to the 90’s …. Black ink artwork and photomechanical lettering were used to create a black positive on clear plastic for each color - that artwork would be burned to create the silkscreen….basically that is still how silkscreening is done … but less hand art is used and digital art is used to output the posetives …. But the attraction posters today all 100% digital output.
Welcome back Monkey Cage Kurt. You'll need to catch up on the new jokes, like commenting on Animatronic Exploding Waterfowl that led to the redesign of the castle drawbridge for safety, counting trash cans in pictures, and the acronym TRE (they ruin everything). Though some things are the same, like Nanook's encyclopedic knowledge of car shapes.
ReplyDeleteWelcome back, Monkey Cage Kurt! I didn't realize it had been six years; glad to "see" you again.
ReplyDelete