I'm using up the last scans from a batch from September, 1972, when the Magic Kingdom was not even a year old.
We're looking in the general direction of the Crystal Palace, partly obscured by trees in the distance. Off to our right is Liberty Square, though we can see the tall roof of the Tropical Serenade building from here. Can we count the inlaid design before us as a compass rose? I believe that the "bus stop" in the center of the photo was where guests could wait for a Jitney, and possibly other vehicles as well.
Much like Disneyland's Frontierland in the early years, the Magic Kingdom's looks kind of raw and scrawny at this point. Tom Sawyer Island was not ready for guests yet, it wouldn't open until March 20th, 1973. Passing in front of us is the Admiral Joe Fowler riverboat, quite a sight. If you look carefully to the left of it, you can just see some totem poles that used to be on display in Disneyland's old Indian Village.
Everyone loves the beautiful Belgian draft horses that pull the Horse Drawn Streetcars, I love the expressions on the two girls just to the right. I'm sure they would love to comb the horse's main and tail! As for me, I would like to talk to him about life insurance.
This next one isn't really looking at the Emporium as it is looking through the Emporium, which is adorned with some impressive gingerbread frippery. The Main Street Cinema is showing Steamboat Willie, but Charlie Chaplin can still be seen there too.
Our photographer was channeling his inner Lou Perry (these were not taken by our friend Lou), since this picture was taken in appreciation for the decorative sign, and maybe for that cast iron too.
I've said it before (I'm like a broken record), but sometimes the sheer size of the buildings on Florida's Main Street feels so crazy to me - I'm so used to the small, intimate Disneyland scale. However, I still remember hearing a podcast years ago, from a person who had gone to WDW many times, but was experiencing his first visit to Disneyland, and he was constantly astonished at how tiny Disneyland seemed to him.
Sorry Kodak, you are yesterday's news. Now GAF is in charge! If you want slide film that will turn grainy and faded in a few decades, you have come to the right place. "Cerulean blue" my eye! I hope that sailor is just going in to ask for directions to the Haunted Mansion. Look at the "fright wig" hat (?) on the woman to our right. I need one of those.
I have more WDW for you, oh my children.
It's hard to pin down, but the location of WDW always seemed odd to me; even when we were there. Maybe it's the unrelenting flatness of the landscape. Or not being able to see anything but trees around the Park. Or maybe the vast space between everything. Whatever it is, it's kind of disorienting and bewildering. Or maybe it's just me.
ReplyDeleteIn the 4th photo, that's quite a dress the lady on the left is wearing; bunches of colors and bunches of dots. And then there's the Boy in Tan, hugging that horse-shaped hitching post. Why is he hugging a horse-shaped hitching post?! He looks like he's staring at us... hugging a horse-shaped hitching post. Maybe he just ate a candied apple and his hands are all sticky and he can't let go... He's probably still there today, stuck to a horse-shaped hitching post.
Last pic... oh, my... why would anyone wear a hat like that? Whatever the antonym is for "flattering" and "sophisticated", that's the word I'm looking for. Maybe it's some sort of rain hat. Major, you were right to add a question mark. It's hard to tell if it's a hat or a curly wig.
Major, either these photos were taken by "Lou Perry; courtesy of Sue B.", or you accidently slapped the wrong watermark on these photos. ;-)
Either way, thanks for showing more early pics of WDW.
In the first pic, the ramp up to the Castle is blocked off with a plywood wall. "Cindy" didn't want any visitors that day.
ReplyDeleteI wish we could tell which film was being depicted in the windows of the Emporium. The figures kind of look like animals. Bedknobs and Broomsticks was released 11 months earlier. Maybe the scene was from that film.
If those girls weren't allowed to brush the mane and tail of that horse, then hopefully they had a "My Little Pony" at home that they could groom.
TOKYO: you are correct! That is Bedknobs and Broomsticks! It’s the start of the soccer match scene …. You can see the hippo in his soccer shorts and tank top and the soccer ball being held up by Professor Browne.
ReplyDeleteAbout two years ago someone on EBAY was selling a pretty large collection of the Bedknobs and Broomsticks emporium animated figures …. I cannot recall if it was the Disneyland set or the WDW set but the prices were very reasonable ( I didn’t bid because I figured they would have gone for more) the seller then - after all the inquiries listed the last batches …. One was the bed , the Magic Bedknob the kids professor Browne and Mrs. Eglentine Price!! But this time the seller wanted a fortune!!
That open space north of the Totem Poles along the river was cleared and prepped for THUNDERMESA …… the Mesa along with Thunder Mesa Runaway Mine Railroad was expected to open in 1974 and then followed by the grand opening of The Western River Expedition in 1976. We’ll….. we all know what happened with that!
I had forgotten about that “compass rose” pattern in front of the castle. As TM! points out, the ramp is closed, which has been my experience on at least half of my visits. There always seems to be some sort of show going on in front that’s way more important than a dramatic guest entrance into Fantasyland. You could actually wait for any vehicle you wanted to at that bus stop, but only Main Street vehicles stopped there. I once sat there for three days before somebody told me the monorail station was outside the main gate.
ReplyDeleteTom Sawyer Island is so raw, they haven’t even started building the suspension bridge between both halves of the island (which technically is two islands, which would make it the “Tom Sawyer Archipelago,” but that doesn’t roll off the tongue as easily). You can see the tip of the northern half off to the extreme right.
I don’t know about you, but I think we can all use a bit more frippery in our lives. That and white, oversized, shapeless, knit mob caps. I have no idea why that style didn’t catch on.
Mike, yeah, still waiting for that Western River Expedition…opening any day now. That animatronic owl after The Walt Disney Story wouldn’t have lied to me, would it?
Thanks, Major. These are some great photographs! Look at all that open space and how light the crowds are – there's hardly anyone on the Admiral Joe Fowler. We went to WDW the following summer and, though Tom Sawyer’s Island was open by then, I can still remember how wide open the Frontierland side of the river seemed. Well-spotted on the Bedknobs & Broomsticks display, TokyoMagic and Mike Cozart. Seeing that film in the cinema left almost as big an impression on me as that first visit to WDW. As for my first visit to Disneyland, I too was struck by how small everything seemed after years of only visiting the Florida park.
ReplyDeleteJB, yep, these were taken by my dad. I was by his side, on this trip, helping with his camera stuff. THIS PHOTO, from GDB 2/28/22 was from that trip. Wonderful memories of time with my dad!!
ReplyDeleteThanks Lou and Sue for the photos today! Lou's photos always tend to point out details and photographs of things that are not so "normally photographable". The photo of the sailor walking into the photo center is pretty stellar with the two chairs in the window. Although The Magic Kingdom is very large and in charge, I will of course always have a soft spot for the scale of Disneyland. I will say that the attention to detail and fret work, gingerbread...et. al...on Main St. is pretty remarkable. Given the elements of Florida- with it's rain and heat and humidity etc. it must have been quite the engineering feat. The photo of future Tom Sawyer Island in it's infancy reminds me of the very early days of Disneyland when things were a big bag of nothing. The land was swamps (and drained swamps) as far as the eye could see and then some. I kind of expect to see "Hotl Disneyland" there in the distance. Nice plywood there at the castle ramp. This mystifies me...I get the shows and things, it's more the progression of the "show" of the Magic Kingdom that gets muddled when you block off areas for anicilary shows. I'm wondering if all of those new trees were allowed to grow bigger, or were they chopped away for some 3-D fantastical fireworks over the top silliness? I know the GP (General Public) likes this kind of stuff...but my personal opinion is that trees are better, and have no scale. Show me some swan boats! I'm in Florida today where it's 90+ degrees and wet...I honestly can't imagine trooping around the Magic Kingdom in this heat. I suppose the locals are used to it. Thanks again Lou and Sue for the photos!
ReplyDeleteThis is the great, big, uncluttered Magic Kingdom I fell in love with! All seen through Lou's great eye for composition. Lots of fun and colorful clothes, too.
ReplyDeleteWDW was as plentifully supplied with trash cans as Disneyland. Never more than a hot dog munch apart.
ReplyDeleteIt’s a good thing those horses are 5/8 scale, full size ones would be very large indeed.
I’m too used to Disneyland, I guess, but the WDW Main Street always seems way over-sized and oddly proportioned to me. I’ve never seen Bedknobs etc. I was aging out of that demo by this time. I don’t recall my kids watching it either, even with the Disney Channel laid on. Maybe I should watch it now?
I’ve seen hats like that one in the last frame, like a shower cap, covered with disc-shaped bits of fabric, and every 10th disc or so is shiny metal in a matching color. A real Phyllis Diller, old Beverly Hills or Palm Springs look, worn by women who usually wear wigs, and are between wigs or hairdos. The lime green one I saw in Brentwood was the topper. The why of it will never be known.
Thanks Lou, Sue and Major.
JG
JB, that seems to be the nature of Florida in general… just flatness everywhere. When I see photos taken from the Magic Kingdom’s Skyway, it’s amazing to see the miles and miles of featureless horizon, nothing but trees. That lady’s dress looks like it was designed by Mondrian, very geometric and odd. I’ll bet the boy hugging the horse hitch is waiting for his parents (or somebody) and he’s bored! That lady’s hat looks like something that a woman would wear to the store if she hadn’t had time to do her hair at all. “Nobody will even notice!”. And these do have the correct watermark on them!
ReplyDeleteTokyoMagic!, I saw that plywood, but somehow it didn’t occur to me that the bridge across the moat was completely blocked. Wonder why? I can’t tell what is going on in that Emporium window, but I’m sure your guess is correct. Did I ever mention that I still haven’t seen “Bedknobs and Broomsticks”? From what I’ve read, “My Little Pony” isn’t just for little girls. I don’t get it, but there you go!
Mike Cozart, wow, I’m amazed that a private seller had so many “Bedknobs” Emporium figures, I wonder how that happened? Was that one of those prop sales that were available to employees? I have no idea what I would do with those large-ish figures, but they are neat artifacts for sure. And I can’t blame somebody for hoping for a big payday on eBay, although sometimes you see people asking preposterous amounts for items that aren’t that great. Aw, Thunder Mesa, just imagine if it had happened!
Chuck, it’s so dumb that they use the front of the castle for those shows (my guess is that most of the shows are lame in that “Disney park live show” manner). And now that they’ve built that big stage in front of the castle, it really destroys the appearance that *should* be one of the most impressive things a guest sees. Mob caps were popular with that lady, and with Charles Dickens characters. Maybe they’ll come back in style? And did the owl from The Walt Disney Story actually mention the Western River Expedition?
Pegleg Pete, as you can see, I can take no credit for these photos, they are from Lou and Sue. That’s why they’re so good! And yes, imagine going to The Magic Kingdom in those days, when there weren’t hoards of sweaty people everywhere. I need that time machine!
Lou and Sue, sorry, I must have been trying to write several blog posts in a short period of time, and neglected to mention that these photos are Lou and Sue pix. At least I watermarked them properly!
Bu, I know that folks who visit the Magic Kingdom on a regular basis are so used to the large scale in Florida, but it just looks TOO big to me. It’s just not what I am used to. But you know that the sheer size of everything is impressive, which was the point. I’ve always liked the “two island” concept for Florida’s Tom Sawyer Island, even though I loved the Anaheim version before it was TRE’d. I’m sure those trees are all long-gone, from what I’ve read, all sorts of drastic measures were done to make fireworks viewing better. It seems weird to make the park uglier for 90% of the day just to benefit the fireworks and castle light shows, but that’s where we are.
Melissa, yes, looking at these photos really makes WDW look so appealing!
JG, I’d love to know (just for yucks) how many trash cans they had to order initially at the Magic Kingdom? 100? 200? They used to use smaller horses at Disneyland, but even there they’d use the big Belgians for pulling the Streetcars. I’m glad, you don’t want to overwork a poor horse. I think I never saw “Bedknobs” for a variety of reasons, but once it was widely available, I wasn’t super interested. There was a time when I thought I needed to see every Disney feature and short film, but there are many holes in my viewing history. My mom used to have bathing caps that she’d wear to the beach or to a pool, covered in mesh “flowers”, I still remember the rubber smell of those caps.
Major, yes, the owl in the post-show area (which had an open-frame body so you could see how his innards worked) talked about being one of the stars of the upcoming Western River Expedition. They also had at least one model scene on display; I want to say it was the saloon.
ReplyDeleteI remember those bathing caps and the smell as well. My sister had tubes in her ears when she was a youngling and had to wear earplugs and a bathing cap to keep them in place when she went swimming. My dad had to ride the water slides at River Country with her and immediately lift her up as soon as they hit the bottom as an extra precaution. One of the lifeguards started to give him a stern talking-to about taking a non-swimmer on a slide when my mom cut him off with "She has tubes in her ears!" To his credit, the lifeguard immediately changed his tone, said "oh, that's OK, then," and must have passed the word around to the other lifeguards because nobody else said a thing for the rest of the day.
They need to trim back that stupid castle - it really gets in the way of the fireworks.
Major: from the early 70’s until the Epcot Center preview went into the Florida Walt Disney Story, a audio-animatronic owl named Hoot Gibson was part of a large “coming soon” display. (The owl from figure was the same - dressed differently as the Disneyland Walt Disney Story Wise O. Owl) Hoot Gibson explained to guests that he was the “star” of a new western adventure being planed for the future right here in Walt Disney world. He then explained he wasn’t the newest generation of Walt Disney studios animated owls from a long history of Disney animated owls. After Hoot explains how he works and pages from book in front of him magically turned to follow along …. “I Started out as a tiny sketch - pretty cute huh!?”…. Then a sculpture …. Then imagineers made mechanical drawings and engineers figured out how to put all that space age stuff inside of me so I could come alive!” During this whole time - through a window guests cutie see a large section of the big scale 1”to the foot model of the “Saturday night in town” scene from Western River Expedition . This was the same model shown a few years ago at the D23 convection .
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the show , Hoot Invites guests to come back soon to Walt Disney World to see him and ride new “Western River Expedition”!!!
There is no evidence however that the character Owl HOOT GIBSON was a actually character to appear in the Western River ride as he appears in none of the models , Marc Davis renderings or layout diagrams …. And as AA figure inventory sheets exist for fabrication for western river ( some buffalo and coyotes were actually completed - later reused in The Listen to the Land at Epcot) no MAPO show sheets exist for Hoot Gibson owl. AA owls would have appeared in the attraction however.
Correction : Hoot Gibson explains HE HIS the newest form of Disney animation …..
ReplyDeleteAlso regarding the Western River Model displayed at D23: it is the only know surviving part of the WRE model know to exist within the Disney Company. It was discovered sealed up behind a extend wall inside the Walt Disney story when a new Epcot display went in in the early 80’s. Over time WDW technicians forgot it was in there. After all those years sealed up - the all miniature show lighting - except for two bulbs were still working - all that time still being turned on each day the Walt Disney Story show light came on!! As WDI said - they were damn lucky there was never a fire!
The soundtrack recording of Hoot Gibson and the western river expedition should be on YOUTUBE.
I seem to remember my parents knowing a guy named Hoot Gibson, who wasn't an owl. Definitely not an owl. Some guy that I think my Mom went to high school with in 1936 and another farmer in the neighborhood. How weird.
ReplyDeleteMajor, my Mom had one of those bathing caps, it must have been part of the drill back then.
Chuck, my daughter had those tubes for a while, seemed like her entire childhood was one long ear infection, poor thing.
JG
JG: there was a popular Western Movie actor in the 1930’s and 1940’s named Hoot Gibson ….. no doubt the inspiration for the Disney AA Owl figure “Hoot Gibson”. The Correlation between the two would have been very obvious to early Vacation Kingdom visitors.
ReplyDeleteThe Western River Expedition was seriously planned for Disneyland and also Tokyo Disneyland … appearing on master plan drawings of both non Florida parks from 1974 through 1977/78. In fact the park layout for Tokyo Disneyland that the oriental land company signed in 1977 was to include THE WESTERN RIVER EXPEDITION , AMERICA SINGS and IF YOU HAD WINGS …none of which were ever included in Tokyo.
The Disneyland Showcase exhibit featured a specific version of “plans for the future” exhibit from 1975 to 1977 that included Hall of Presidents , Liberty Square , Western River Expedition and Thunder Mesa Runaway Railroad and Space Mountain.
The Western River Expedition and Thunder Mountain Mine Railroad as TWO separate attractions first show up on a Disneyland master plan is 1972!! This means WED imagineers were already considering Western River Ride and the Runnaway Mine train as TWO separated attractions : this predates Tony Baxter’s proposal in 1973 of separating Thunder Mesa railroad from Western River expedition….. meaning this could not have been and idea that started with Tony Baxter …. Tony wound have still been in Florida on installation in 20,000 leagues when this Disneyland master plan expansion was being worked on for Disneyland california …
Mike, I just looked up "Hoot Gibson, (JG home town California) and found him. He was in education for many years, went to school with my Mom.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if his nickname was influenced by the actor you speak of. I just looked up the actor, had never heard of him, but they are definitely two different people with the same name in approximately the same era. The actor was much older, maybe 20-30 years.
I remember that exhibit in Disneyland for WRE, Liberty Square and the Runaway Mine car. This might have 1977 on my last trip to the Park with Mom and Dad, only I didn't know that would be the last. I was excited for that exhibit, then when I came back in the 1990's, it wasn't there.
JG
JG & Mike, I knew another guy named “Hoot Gibson,” an Air Force pilot who commanded my AFROTC unit in the late ‘70s (a good 12 or so years before I was a student there, but he was still living in the area when I was a student and then 10 years later when I was on faculty at the same unit). And I have read of other AF pilots who went by “Hoot Gibson” as well. I think that was the default nickname at the time for any guy with a last name of Gibson in that era.
ReplyDeleteMike, as always, thanks for the additional detail. That 1972 Disneyland plan showing the mine train and WRE as separate attractions is interesting. Were they slated for different parts of Frontierland or just billed as separate attractions? And it’s interesting if that separation was proposed before the 1973 fuel crisis, which is connected to the generally-distributed story of the demise of WRE at the expense of BTMRR. Still, didn’t Marc Davis always hold Tony Baxter responsible for killing WRE, or at least for dealing the first blow that resulted in its cancellation?
Chuck, I think you are right, I'm sure it's the case with the guy from my youth. It's mostly only funny to me since I never heard of the actor by that name.
ReplyDeleteJG
As to the scale difference of the parks, I'm used to the original park, so when I visit the Magic Kingdom with its oversized Main Street, I feel like a little kid again. Talk about magical!
ReplyDeleteChuck, wow, I’m not sure I ever knew about that crazy display with the owl! Sounds pretty cool. Your poor sister, I used to get earaches once in a while when I was a kid, they were so painful! I guess I have to give the lifeguards credit for trying to maintain a safe environment, and for being respectful when they found out the whole situation.
ReplyDeleteMike Cozart, OH, I was thinking about the Disneyland version of “The Walt Disney Story”, I’m not sure I knew there was a version of that show in Florida. Now it makes more sense! It’s too bad that this is from before hand-held video cameras were common, I’d love to see a video of Hoot Gibson (did they have to contact the Hoot Gibson estate to use his name??); and once again, I have to think about what a shame it was that they’d planned such an amazing ride as the Western River Expedition, and never built it. They were SO CLOSE! Thanks for all that great information.
Mike Cozart, so cool that they found that surviving model behind a sealed up wall. Like King Tut’s tomb! What a discovery. And yes, very lucky that there was never a fire. I will look for that Hoot Gibson recording!
JG, could it be that your mom actually knew the western movie actor? I just looked him up, he died in 1962. Not sure I’ve ever seen anything with him in it. I think those bathing caps were just “a thing” back then, and when I took swimming lessons at the YMCA, I’d cling to her with a death grip, ha ha.
Mike Cozart, I’d say it’s a certainty that Disney took the name “Hoot Gibson” from the western star. It’s weird though, as if they named an AA figure “Slim Pickens”. Although Slim lived a lot longer. I did not know that the Western River Expedition was also planned for Tokyo Disneyland, and am sort of surprised that it wasn’t built there, since they seemed to be willing to spend money when Disney would not. Interesting about how early the concept of splitting up Big Thunder from the Western River Expedition was around.
JG, ha ha, so there was ANOTHER Hoot Gibson?! Crazy. “Hoot” wasn’t his nickname, but his actual given name?
Chuck, good grief, there’s a whole population of Hoot Gibsons. Probably all raised in a lab. And yes, they were clones of each other, genetically identical. The original plan for the clones in the Star Wars prequels was that they would all have been made from Hoot Gibson. TRUE STORY.
JG, I’m not sure how I ever heard of the actor, but it’s just one of those names that seems like I’ve known forever.
Bryce, I never considered the thing about feeling like a little kid again. Kind of fun!
I think naming an AA owl “Slim Pickens” would be weird, but connecting the sound that owls make with a cowboy star whose name people would have known makes more sense…unless maybe the owl was riding an H-bomb.
ReplyDeleteMajor, the Hoot that Mom knew was named Harold. The actor Hoot was named Edmund. Can’t speak for Chuck’s Hoots.
ReplyDeleteIt was the forerunner of “Buckaroo Banzai” where all the aliens are named John.
I’m not an alien, BTW.
JG
CHUCK: the 1972 Disneyland master plan - I understand was under direction of Rolly Crump …. But there were plans for a pinocchio Village across from the skyway…(mostly for a restaurant by 1973/74. Pinocchio attraction too) to the left of it’s a Small World an FANTASIA attraction … to the left of that A GARDEN OF THE GODS … in 1973 Garden if the Gods attraction is replaced with a ISLAND AT THE TOP OF THE WORLD attraction - a stand alone fantasyland attraction ( pre discovery bay concept) Segueing west from fantasyland to the the left of “Top of the World is THUNDER MESA & The Western River Expedition ( the Disneyland RR passes right in front of the Mesa show building as it does Small World . Across from Mesa is a BBQ restaurant ( evolving into big thunder ranch in the 80’s) and a electronic shooting gallery called “-something ( unable to read print) canyon Explosive Company” with a banner hanging from the front facade reading “serving the Thunder Mountain Mining Region For 2 consecutive Months!”…. I think this is where Tony Baxter got his idea for the Fireworks Factory for Discovery Bay. South of thunder Mesa , but very close it where it is today is Thunder Mountain Mining Railway…… Tony Baxter was put on big Thunder for Florida in 1973…. And his idea to separate Western River and Big Thunder if Florida was supposedly his idea …. But it was already being considered for Disneyland in 1972. And a 1972 WDW press release mentions the opening of Thunder Mesa Runaway Railroad opening soon and being a step in the completion of Thunder Mesa and the western river railroad. Whoever did decide to separate these attractions into two individual units is debatable…. But Tony Baxter definitely created the look of big thunder mountain and how the train would appear to have been built on existing terrain ….. a design factor I don’t think was given much attention to previously in the concepts ….
ReplyDeleteBut in this 1972/1973 master plan evolution you can see how The Discovery Bay Project developed … and I think Thunder Mesa gets the boot. ( in the early 1980’s it’s proposed again as part of LAND OF Legends)
I have a feeling the gas crises wasn’t the direct killing link to Thunder Mesa & Western River Expedition. I think the gas crises SLOWED its development… and WED had every intention of build it for WDW - DL - Tokyo Disneyland….. I think EPCOT CENTER’s development killed Western River Expedition and Thunder Mesa.
Even WED art directors had Marc Davis restage some WRE scenes for World of Motion … the stagecoach hold up becomes the train robbery… etc ….. during epcots development is when Davis Retired probably knowing the company would never repeat these AA scenes in Epcot in Western River ….. and Tokyo Disneyland’s THUNDERMESA appears to be a duplicate of Disneyland’s version … which would have benefitted from the design development of the Florida prototype.