Frontierland, 1950s
Here are more scans from a large batch of 1950s slides, of which 3/4 were Frontierland images. Being Sunday, I'm sharing a few that leave much to be desired.
For the first few years of Disneyland's existence, you could have seen a Conestoga Wagon or two rumbling along the shores of the Rivers of America. This is the cheerful blue "Westward Ho!" wagon - there was also wagon that was painted brown, that one said "Oregon or bust". If this image was just a little bit sharper it would have made me happy.
Next we have some killer vampire elk, some of the most feared animals of the West. Don't make eye contact!! Since the trees are still so scrawny, we can see the berm fairly well, and while it is basically a pile of leftover dirt, they arranged it to look like a fairly believable range of low hills. Notice the little portage carved into the shore for small boats, presumably for maintenance staff.
23 comments:
Major-
Oh, to be able to explore the Park when it was still 'becoming itself'.
Interesting, the inclusion of the exclamation point following "HO!" And on one example [at least] of the "OREGOŠ or BUST." wagons, the "N" is backwards and a period is included; another example has a correct "N". The signage seemed to be created by a schizophrenic or dyslexic grammarian-!
Thanks, Major.
The Westward Ho! looks to be about twice the size of a real Conestoga Wagon. And look at all the Disnesite rocks! Four times lighter than pumice, they get blown around by the wind. Sometimes you'll see them bunched up on the shores of Tom Sawyer Island; sometimes, like here, on the opposite shore, depending on the prevailing wind.
The smaller gray 'rocks' are actually Animatronic Exploding Ducks in their larval state.
You're letting your guard down, Major. It was the killer vampire elk themselves who carved out that little boat landing (with their antlers and huge canine teeth) to lure unsuspecting boaters to their undead doom. Between the killer ducks, swans , elk, and monkeys; Disneyland is one big death trap!
Nanook, I wasn't aware of the differences in the Wagon signage; interesting, but strange.
Thanks for the visit to the Deadliest Place on Earth, Major. Be afraid, be very afraid.
The lettering variants on the “conestoga” wagons would be accurate as they would reflect the owners own destinations and enthusiasm starting on their journey . The lettering wouldn’t be mass produced - duplicates. Technically the Disneyland “Conestoga” wagons are really a cross between a Prairie Schooner and a Covered Wagon . Few Conestoga wagons ever made it into the American deserts and past the Great Basin . the real prototypes had more of an extreme curved bottom - almost like a boat. Conestoga wagons were originally created as freight wagons for the colonies and early Federal period…. They were designed for tolls roads and well travelled roads - not the rugged west. Conestoga wagons were also notorious for getting split axels as the tallow used as a lubricant weakened the wood. The Prairie Schooner was a more rugged evolution of the earlier Conestoga Wagon ….it also kept a flat bottom for ease of loading and unloading cargo. Pioneers used these for their ruggedness and stronger chassis. The COVERED WAGON was the last version of the type of settler wagon used after the civil War and was usually a existing freight wagon( sometimes called A California Rack Wagon - because the sides could be removed or made higher with extensions or a Oregon Box) or farm wagon with added canvas cover. Studebaker Automobile company got its start making these farm/ freight wagons in the 1800’s and were famous for their green or blue bodies with red or yellow undercarriages.
When you see western movies or tv shows like Bonanza or Little House on the Prairie… you would get the impression that these wagons were all worn grey/silvery wood or brown , but in reality when they were in their heyday these horse drawn wagons were well maintained in most cases and were delivered from the wagon makers in bright colors - exactly how the Disneyland horse drawn wagons were presented to guests in Frontierland.
There’s speculation as whether the original pioneers really wrote sayings and destinations on their wagon canvases … it that was more of a anniversary thing when people took village vintage wagons and recreated the wagon train trails in the 1920’s and 1930’s ….and for Hollywood.
That Conestoga Wagon is about to encounter two large elephants, just up ahead. ;-)
I don’t recall ever seeing a photo of the Westward Ho! in color before. I like it.
That photo of the Anaheim Elks Club looks pretty ominous. I half expect to see their eyes glowing red.
JB, I’m also concerned about those drifting rocks. On the left, that group of four are getting ready to attack that wagon of innocent folk. The leader is up by the road, while backup is hiding below.
The writing on the wagons was the start of social media. Next, they drew pictures of what was for dinner.
—Sue
I’m trying to figure out the location of both pics, other than generally by the River.
Is the wagon near where Cascade Peak would be? Is the Elks Club near the FIV? I’m so confused.
I do like these early pictures showing the Shape of Things to Come.
Thanks Major!
JG
@ MIKE-
Thanks for the info.
Nanook, it’s funny how, to you and me (and other vintage Disneyland fans), this version of the park looks so amazing and delightful; I remember reading a popular message board years ago, and the consensus is that Disneyland was “boring back then”. I never paid that much attention to the variations on the Conestoga wagons, but that’s the sort of minutiae that I love!
JB, is that true, is the “Westward Ho!” a lot larger than real Conestoga wagons? I have no idea. You sure know a lot about Disnesite. I wonder how those rocks formed in nature. Volcanic? Metamorphic? I would never let my guard down around vampire elk, I’m not crazy! I just forgot about how they carved out riverbanks with their fangs. Don’t forget that they also lured those boats with their beautiful songs (“Mandy” by Barry Manilow).
Mike Cozart, I am always amazed (though by now I shouldn’t be) at your knowledge of things like the various wagons that crossed the frontier! My understanding is that the Conestogas were built to be able to float across rivers, but maybe I’m confusing them with some other kind of wagon. Snerd wagons! Tallow might have weakened those axles, but it sure tasted good. Here’s a digression; in second or third grade I had to do a collage about the pioneers. So I cut up a bunch of my mom’s “Arizona Highways” magazines. I got an “A”, but the teacher was upset that I cut up those beautiful magazines. I told her, “Hey, baby, I’m a rebel!”. Well, I would have told her that, probably. Maybe wagons were reused once they had served their purpose with one customer? I could see them crossing the country multiple times. But I get your point about them always looking worn out. It would look weird to our eyes to see all that stuff looking bright and new!
TokyoMagic!, back when giant herds of elephants used to populate the prairies!
Chuck, I thought I had at least one very nice photo of the “Westward Ho!”, but I mostly have photos of “Oregon Or Bust”. I wonder if they often only ran one wagon unless it was very busy?
Sue, man, the frontier was more dangerous than I ever imagined. I was just worried about drought and ducks, I never even thought about rocks. I like the idea of “texting” via wagon!
JG, there aren’t a lot of clues to help pinpoint the exact locations of those photos… they both show somewhat generic hillsides and trees. Maybe someone else can figure it out? Because I sure can’t.
I've crossed the Conestoga river in Lancaster PA a few times. I guess that's where Conestoga wagons were originally built. I also remember a "Conestoga Derby" when my brother was in Cub Scouts, but I don't remember any details except each pack maing their own kid-sized one.
All of this talk makes me think of the Oregon Trail game that was a staple of classroom Apple II computers in the 1980s. "You have died of dysentery"
when I was little and I heard people talk about "covered wagons," I thought they were saying "cupboard wagons." When I fist saw one on TV, I wondered where the cupboards were.
Surprisingly, I don't have much today...although I will say that I want to go to THIS park! Boring is my bag. This park looks amazing. The elk look real in a still shot...and I'm trying to place this exact space but I cannot. It looks like a mini Fowlers Harbor without McDonalds fries. The vegetation is pretty lush for the early days...I guess throw some grass seed down and see what happens. Not sure that was the plan, but when it LOOKS like the plan, that it the "suspension of belief". I guess they don't have boulders that big in Anaheim...or perhaps even rocks at all. Everytime I dig even the tiniest hole in my backyard I encounter a boulder that big. Granite and immovable. I did move one...it was 10 x 10 feet...giant...a huge bulldozer pushed it around until I said "RIGHT THERE STOP!" Perhaps they did the same for the Disneyite...or is is Dinasite...or are those rocks in Dinah Shores backyard? I thought Dinah Shore was a Toluca Lake gal, but I looked it up and she was BH/PS. The PS house you can rent. It's super cool. For some reason I thought I remembered her talking on her talk show in the 70's about Bob Hope being a neighbor- who was a Tolucan. Toluca Lake DOES have a lake...you just can't see it if you are mortal as it's surrounded by Beverly Hills types who happen to live in 818. Maybe you can see it from the Hills of Universal...
Major-
You gotta admit, the draw for us 'vintage Disneyland fans' is to see [especially through 'informed eyes'] the Park in its infancy: How simple things were; and just how much Walt and his Imagineers were able add, grow and change in a relatively short time-! It truly IS remarkable. Most fans [and I would argue justifiably so] are interested in "all the things they can do" when they visit. Comparing the first couple of years to even 1959 - there wasn't a lot to do - and then throw-in another eight years - and the changes are massive. And we haven't even entered the 1970's, yet-!
Followers of history may or may not be 'a cut above', but their contributions are needed to force awareness of the past to the lay public, hopeful it will maintain a bridge to the past...
Mike, thanks for the wagon info. Somehow, it makes me happier, knowing that the pioneers' wagons were brightly colored.
Tokyo!, I see 'em! (I think). One facing away from us (I can see a tail), and one facing sort of to the left.
Sue, I hadn't thought about the Disnesite rocks being 'killer rocks' before. But You're probably right, everything in Disneyland is deadly, it seems.
"...they drew pictures of what was for dinner", haha! I can see every wagon with beans, beans, and more beans... and hardtack, painted on the canvas.
Major, vampire elk: the Sirens of Disneyland. I woulda thought that "Windy" by The Association would lure in more victims; it has a catchier beat. Get it? Catch? As in lure?...
Dean Finder, I was given a copy of that old Oregon Trail game about 17 years ago, and played it. Seems like someone in your party (usually a youngster) was always dying for some reason or other.
Yeah … Conestoga Wagons while shaped somewhat like a boat, definitely could not have floated - they were massive heavy wagons. The reason for their boat line shape was to prevent barrels from rolling around or out on hills …. The wagon bed actually dipped in the center.
Prairie Schooners were big, but 1/2 the size of a Conestoga wagon - these too would have been unable to float. Prairie Schooners are commonly mislabel or called a “Conestoga Wagon” the way so many people call any kind of car from the 1900’s - 1920’s a “MODEL “T”.
Prairie Schooners sometimes were “relieved” of their wheels and loaded onto log rafts and ferried across a swollen creek or river …. Maybe even down a river a short distance. But the wagons would not be watertight .
Now I know the “Box Wagon” mostly what you see used as a covered wagon , being much smaller than the other two wagons, was sometimes used by freight Companies were lined with tar to waterproof the cargo bed for river crossings …. But I don’t think they were floated like a boat …. The wagon would need its tailgate to still function to unload …. And I’m sure water would seep in easily at the rear.
One more note about the Conestoga Wagon not being used for immigrants trail crossings : the wagons were so massive they needed 9 to 10 horses or 6 oxen to pull them!!! There is no way enough food and water would have been available to the animals - especially during the Great Basin crossing.
The Prairie Schooner wagons were often sold or traded for a smaller farm or box wagon after their cross country journey. The Prairie Schooners became the 1800’s version on the interstate freight wagon as the frontier settled or until the railroads came. In the later part of the 19th century and early 20th century , some PRARIE Schooners were found being used as ore wagons for mining companies.
The canvas cover on “covered” wagons were called “bonnets”. None of the three wagons mentioned used any springs on wheels or axels so a ride in or on them would have been very uncomfortable. The later two wagons often have metal elliptical springs under a drivers seat - but even that would have been uncomfortable for anything more than a short distance.
Now WED and Walt had very accurate reproductions of almost every kind of 19th century horse drawn vehicle researched and built for use at DISNEYLAND….. some for guest use others for parades and just demonstration and display …. But why some were mislabel …. I’m not sure …. But that was probably a operations mistake that overtime slipped by.
Disneyland was using PRAIRE SCHOONERS not CONESTOGA WAGONS.
The Disneyland Main Street “Surreys” were actually WAGONETTES …. But there is evidence some of the actual WED created Surreys were used on Main Street in the early days … the WAGONETTES accommodated more passengers so the real surreys were probably retired , but the name was just kept .
@ MIKE-
Wow- even more info-! I think I'm just about prepared to take a 3rd Grade quiz on crossing the prairie-!
Thanks again,
-SS
Dean Finder, I assume that, by law, you can only cross the Conestoga River in a Conestoga wagon? You also have to say, “By cracky!” three times along the way. It seems strange, but it’s all in the name of safety. When you said “Conestoga Derby”, I pictured a hat shaped like one of the wagons!
Melissa, aw! I would have just assumed that the cupboards were inside, beneath the cloth arch. And that they were filled with candy.
Bu, I love seeing that little portage because it makes me imagine workers landing there after hours (or on Mondays and Tuesdays?) to make sure the elk had plenty of animatronic grass to eat, or to tend to the newly-planted trees. I don’t know if any attempt was made to plant authentic prairie flora, or if they just planted whatever would grow the fastest in Anaheim. Probably the latter. At least they didn’t use those messy pepper trees! So… you have a 10 X 10 granite boulder in your yard? You should have it carved with your likeness. Bob Hope probably owned many homes, he was a real estate guy after all. The Palm Springs house was mostly designed by John Lautner, although he apparently disowned it after Bob interfered too much.
Nanook, it’s true, the evolution of the park from its humble (or “relatively humble”, anyway) beginnings to the amazing heights that it achieved just in the last 11 years of Walt’s lifetime, is pretty incredible. We’ve commented on how believable Frontierland was in those early years, before so many things were built along its shores. I wouldn’t give up the Haunted Mansion for anything, though! I suppose it’s like any place that has been around for a long time; I love vintage photos of L.A. because of the charming, vital, and fun place that it used to be. It seems that a lot of the charm and fun have gone away.
JB, it sure would be weird to watch a western movie with brightly-colored wagons! “Did Sid and Marty Krofft art-direct this thing??”. All rocks are killer rocks if you give them the opportunity. This is why I never turn my back on a rock. Never! “Windy” is a good song, but for some reason those elk just like Barry Manilow. Who knows how nature works? Not me. I only know of “Oregon Trail” because I like to watch YouTube videos of people who restore old computers, who like to play old computer games.
Mike Cozart, I’m sure those wagons were heavy, but gosh, some boats are heavy too. I know it all has to do with displacement, and maybe that was too complex a thing for wagon-builders to consider. I think they should have tied hot-air balloons to them to lighten the load. IDEAS. I call all old cars “flivvers”! I’m imagining a wagon lined with tar. There’s nothing that could go wrong with that idea. I know that Walter Knott had all of his wagons and other props built for Knott’s Berry Farm, but I have to wonder if, in his early mining years, he saw authentic old wagons that were already antiques? I’ve had discussions with a fellow Disneyland enthusiast about the Buckboards that appear in only the earliest park articles (and maybe one postcard) - even though a LIFE magazine article shows one crossing a “creek” with a load of passengers, I don’t think they were ever an attraction, per se. And I’m sure that “surrey” was just a more appealing word to folks, especially with the popularity of that song from “Oklahoma!”.
Nanook, if a Conestoga Wagon fought Captain Kirk and Captain Picard, who would win?
Oh heavier things than a Conestoga Wagon can float …. But these wagons were designed and built by German immigrants in 1790’s Pennsylvania to carry freight overland ….. they were not building pleasure crafts for water …. And the board gaps on the wagons sides and and then holes where brake and tie-rods are attached would let in water faster than a pasta Colander! Volkswagen Beatles could float - for a short time - but nobody bought them to go sailing in.
Consulting the 1955 and 1960 aerial photos at Yesterland, that little “portage” was located on the far western bank of the RoA directly across from Fort Wilderness. The Westward Ho! shot was taken on the far eastern bank of the RoA at a spot pretty much on a line due east of the Elk’s Club. As JG suggests (and the 1960 photo confirms), this is the location that Cascade Peak would later rise due to cataclysmic tectonic forces which formed the mountain out of timber framing and gunite.
Major, are we talking TOS Captain Kirk or late-movie-era-demoted-from-admiral Captain Kirk?
And is it TNG Picard or Picard Picard?
Chuck, thanks for those links.
That West Bank was pretty vague back then.
I somehow guessed right on the wagons. Even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then.
I love doing these puzzles.
JG
Mike Cozart, you make a good point about the wagons not being water-tight!!
Chuck, it’s funny, because both of the locations are about where I would have guessed (honest!), but I was too lazy to look at aerial photos. Although… somehow I thought that the place where Cascade Peak eventually went was not so heavily forested. But again… I didn’t really check to see if that was true.
Chuck, TNG Picard! I haven’t see the show “Picard”, but from all that I’ve heard, it sounds like it’s not what I want from Jean Luc. However, I have been enjoying “Star Trek: Strange New Worlds”.
Based on those parameters, I’d say the Captains, but if the Conestoga were joined by a Mud Wagon, all bets are off.
I expect to be banished to Rura Penthe for this, but without a subscription to Paramount+, I am ashamed to admit that I am not current on any of the new Star Trek series.
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