I have a bunch of Knott's Berry Farm scans that are not that amazing, but I wanted to use them. If I share 6 of them, maybe that will help to make a solid blog post!
The first four are date-stamped "June, 1970". We've seen this Capuchin monkey before (or one very much like him, anyway), with a stylish red outfit. Would he shake your hand? Dance a hornpipe? Do tricks for peanuts? Skillfully lift your wallet out of your pocket? Notice the sign asking people not tease the monkey, hard to believe that anybody would be so cruel to an animal.
In Calico Square, not far from the train depot, there was a desperate shootout as varmints tried to rob the train! Crime doesn't pay, and the bad guys got a dose of hot lead. The hunched-over character might be the undertaker, can't he see that the wounded robber is still twitching?
I have no idea why our photographer thought that this door was worthy of a precious frame of film, but hey, it's different! Maybe that's the door to Walt's apartment. Walter Knott, that is.
Choo choo! Here comes the "Red Cliff". It might be narrow gauge, but it is BIG compared to the 5/8 scale Disneyland locomotives. There's a gentleman to the right snapping away for more action shots. The Log Ride is to our left.
The last two are from August of 1974, with folks posing in front of the "Campanario de la felicidad", or "Rage of Turtles" when translated into English. OK, OK, it means "belfry of happiness", and it looks like a place where at least a few wedding photos might have been taken (do they do weddings at KBF?).
That kid has some red hair. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I just feel the need to point it out. Is he the grandson of the previous couple? My vote is "yes". Enjoy your visit to 1974 Knott's Berry Farm, fella! By then my family had moved to the east coast, and I was missing my favorite places so much.
I guess it depends on what one's definition of 'tease' is. To the monkey (minkey), teasing might simply be you refusing to give him your wallet. And then he rips your face off. You can see in the photo that he has "that look"; the look he gets just before ripping off your face. Hey, if Disney can have killer swans and ducks, then Knott's can have killer minkeys. It all balances out.
ReplyDeleteActually, the sign says "Please tease monkey!" Sort of a Darwin Award test.
I wonder if the minkey enjoyed wearing that costume?
At first I couldn't figure out what the undertaker had in his hands. Then I realized it's a (old west) stethoscope. Not sure what he's doing, since the bad guy is obviously still alive, as you pointed out, Major.
Wonder why there are so many gold colored shirts in the audience?
In the 'door' pic, maybe the photographer was a wrought iron craftsman admiring the railing.
In the "choo choo" pic, not sure if the guy snapping away is aiming at the train or the girl sitting on the fence; maybe both.
In the "Rage of Turtles" photo, Those are actually the "Pearly Gates". Notice that they're closed; Saint Peter is on his lunch break (angel food cake).
The grandson has a pinback button attached to his collar. I tried zooming in, but it didn't help. Wonder why it isn't attached to his shirt pocket, like a normal person?
Knice Knott's photos, Major.
That locomotive paint scheme!!. Excuse me a moment while I yawn in Technicolor©…
ReplyDeleteThat conductor is certainly well-armed. He’s holding a pistol, cradling a shotgun, has another pistol in his holster. Going to guess his job was to collect the firearms of the “deceased” before a guest grabbed one and took off into the crowd. Most people aren’t like that, but you still need to be careful, particularly with realistic-looking (and possibly actually real) firearm props.
Note he is carrying a bag full of something (Gold? Grenades? Gummi bears?) hanging off his holster below the pistol. While that looks cool, in reality that would get very uncomfortable after a while with an imbalanced load on his hips. After a month or so in Iraq of carrying a loaded M9 pistol and two full magazines in a pouch clipped to the outside of the holster, all on my right side, my right knee and hip started hurting. The pain went away when I moved the magazines to the opposite hip to better balance the load.
While these pictures don’t tell a coherent story (I can relate), they do remind me of what you would see in an average family’s photo album after a visit to Knott’s - a near-random series of snaps that still jog the memory of what an awesome time they had. Reminds me of the awesome times I had there, too…despite that ugly locomotive. Pardon me…I feel dry heaves coming on…
I remember an organ grinder monkey from “somewhere” in my misspent youth, and I think this is the guy. So it’s a Knotts memory!
ReplyDeleteI vividly recall his nasty little fingernails.
Thanks Major!
It’s sad to say it, but a staged gunfight like this would terrify guests today, thinking it was real and all too plausible.
And to all those in the campanile of happiness, I can offer only, “Lo siento, amigos, La vida es dolor.” Perhaps Disney will adopt a campanile like this for Encanto.
JG
Ha ha, these Knott’s photos have thrilled the GDB audience!
ReplyDeleteJB, you make some valid points about monkeys, those little jerks are just extortionists. They are a little furry Mafia, when you think about it. Although the real Mafia can be pretty furry too. I’m imagining a whole well-lit closet full of outfits for the monkey. To us it would sound like he’s saying, “Ee! Eeee!” but to his owner the monkey is saying “I think today I want to wear the black outfit with the red piping”. I guess a good undertaker should make sure that their clientele is actually dead before burying them. It’s just good business. Ha, I didn’t even notice the girl in that train photo, now I’m trying to decide if she is a kid or not. I know that when I see the Pearly Gates they will be closed. But I will just jump the turnstiles over to the side! I saw that pin on the collar too, I wish I could tell what it said!
Chuck, considering how Knott’s often tried to look as authentic as possible, it’s weird that they went with that red, yellow, and milk-chocolate brown paint scheme for the Red Cliff. Is there any chance that those are colors that were used on real locomotives, somewhere in the world? Yeah, probably not. Your comment about the arms made me wonder, were they actual old guns? Back then an old Colt revolver might not have fetched the crazy collector prices that they do now. I was wondering what that bag was on the conductor’s hip, it looks very strange, with a very specific shape. You should have carried all your weapons balanced on your head, that way your hips would not have been sore. This is known as “thinking outside of the box”, and it’s why I am a billionaire. I have more photos of the Red Cliff coming up, but at least some of them are in black and white, so you won’t have to toss your waffles.
JG, I’m pretty sure I saw an organ grinder and monkey at Knott’s when I was a kid. The monkey freaked me out, with his little twitchy moves and almost-human expressions. Your not wrong about the gunfight, although (as far as I know) they still have train robbers who fire off a very LOUD blank inside the train. I’m sure they love watching everyone jump a foot into the air. I’m starting to think that the “Encanto” rumors for Disneyland’s treehouse are not correct, but we’ll see.
That second to the last image looks like a 70’s K-Tell record album cover….. “K - Tell presents ROMANTIC SONGS OF OLD MEXICO” …. Available on album , 8-track and now cassette!!
ReplyDeleteWhen the Calico & Ghost Town Railroad opened , Knott’s was definitely emulating the authentic - but garish DENVER RIO GRANDE “bumble bee “ orange, black and silver stripes. The orange color sometimes is a yellow …. At some point I think Knott’s tried to create their own variant of these type “flying stripes” sone narrow gauge railroads used. I think only the Denver Rio Grande locomotive # 268 is the only surviving train kept in the “bumble bee” scheme.
"Who loves a Monkey's Uncle?" We are back to the Swiss Family connections. I don't actually think there was a Monkey in that movie, but it was a great musical achievement to marry the Beach Boys, The Sherman Bros, and Annette at the same time. Who knew? I don't have any particular big romantical memories of Knotts. We never went there as kids. I didn't visit until I was kind of an adult and working at the Mouse House down the block. I was a wee...or probably more than a wee...of a Disneyland snob. Things were not as "clipped" and tight and clean as Disneyland. But it did have the Corkscrew, and the Log Ride. I went a few times, and went for Halloween- talk about carnage...there is no way it would happen in this era: "come see the hanging" "shows at 9 and 11". I attribute the "wild west" to the "hard facts". Neither of which particularly interested me. Florida seems like the wild west now, but I won't go down that street. Monkeys are problematic and are little thieves. I think I told the story about traveling in East Africa where every hotel room came with it's own monkey. They are smart and are pick pockets and locksmiths. They can smell hard candies for miles. They are sweet...until they are not. If you come back to a hotel room and your room is trashed it has nothing to do with housekeeping. It's the little rascals on the hunt. They know how to open luggage, zippers, etc. I agree with "don't tease". They have sharp teeth for breaking up hard candies. Knotts has a certain Je ne Sais Quoi. Very endearing in photos. I want a cutting of a real Buena Park Boysenberry. My stepfathers parents favorite restaurant was the Knotts Chicken place. They emigrated to Wilmington CA from Arkansas..they all took my maternal grandmother there for dinner when she was over from the UK. I asked her about the dinner (I did not attend the festivities). She said over her breath in public "ohhh it was very nice indeed"...then said to me in private in hushed tones "it was absolutely SHOCKING". "the worst meal I've ever had in my life". This was from someone who lived in London during the blitz of WWII. I guess it was bad...but people in those early 80's raved about Mrs. Knotts chicken (I think she was already gone by that time). I have heeded my grandmothers warning to this day and have not had the pleasure, or displeasure of Cordelia Knott's chicken. I do think that it was interesting that two Walts had very successful business ventures a few miles apart. As a family owned business for such a long time, I am sure the politics were mini-series worthy much like the Disney's. Looking forward to hearing the stories....I only have one side of the story of the two Walts. Coming soon to Pickwick Booksellers.
ReplyDeleteIn the early days of railroads bright yellows and chrome yellows were used on locomotives and passenger railway coaches because before railroads road stage coaching companies in Europe gave the exclusive use of yellow for the stagecoach colors to the companies with the fastest most relatable service. When railroads came about they used yellow to denote SPEED. However the way paint pigments were made in the 1830s and 40’s the chemicals used to create yellow often turned a brown color because of the heat and oil varnish ….. so eventually yellow color was abandoned for use on locomotives and blues, greens and reds became popular. But yellow remained a common color for railway passenger cars. Europe continued to use very bright locomotive color schemes until about WW1. The United States began to limit bright colors and naming locomotives ( using numbers instead) shortly after the Civil War - partially because of cost , but also because the the impact railroads had on the war …. Americans after had a different less-of- a love affair with machinery….. until the Automobile changed that.
ReplyDeleteAmerican stagecoaches came if all sorts of colors but Americans used yellow and red most often - copying the British colors but not the British designations YELLOW: fastest passenger service , RED : Royal Mail carrier . Blue , black or Green ; your coach company will get you there when they get there - assuming a wheel or luggage doesn’t fall off or a coach doesn’t turn over!
Mike Cozart, I would buy that album and put it in a place of honor! I’m sure it would sound great on my hi-fi. Thanks for the info about the authentic Denver Rio Grande colors. It seems so strange, and yet… look at the colors used on the Super Chief in the 1950s. Maybe it made the idea of rail travel more exciting? I think I’ve seen early photos of the Knott’s train - it’s in black and white, but clearly does not have the colors that Chuck dislikes so much, so they added that after the fact.
ReplyDeleteBu, yes, Disney used the word “monkey” all the time for “chimpanzee”, which was annoying, but I guess “monkey” is a funnier word (?). My friend Mr. X also has no real fondness for Knott’s, which is surprising to me. I love Knott’s, and especially loved it when I got to go often in the early ‘70s. Yes, it was different from Disneyland, but that was the point. If I wanted Disneyland, I could just drive another 10 minutes. I believe that they did hangings at Knott’s for “Halloween Haunts” fairly recently, much to my amazement. I get that it’s supposed to be horrific, but still. I’m glad I don’t have to deal with monkeys in my daily life, I’ve seen enough videos of them grabbing iPhones or a sandwich right out of somebody’s hand. And they like to congregate in large numbers! I did not try Knott’s chicken until the 1990s, and it was fine. But maybe for Orange County, especially in the 1940s and ‘50s when there was nothing for miles, it seemed pretty to be the best thing ever. There could be a 2.5 hour wait, which is why Walter Knott built his park - keep those potential customers entertained, or they’ll go home. Also, I’ve had some pretty bad meals at Disneyland (as well as some pretty good ones). I think it’s hard to judge today’s food and assume that it’s the same as it was 70 years ago, in fact I can guarantee that it isn’t the same at all.
Mike Cozart, I guess that’s why the Disneyland passenger coaches were that bright yellow - another historical accuracy. But I guess I always think of the locomotives themselves as being mostly black, and I assumed that was partly to help hid any grease and oil stains and other grime that might make them look unsightly. Maybe I’m wrong. Plus, black paint was probably plentiful and cheap. You sure know a lot about trains! I’m impressed.
I think I found the best thing about Knotts that I hope will not be "TRE'd": the old dirt parking lot on Las Palmas/Beach/Western. I looked on Google maps and it's all still there, and has some really nice heritage trees. From the satellite view you can see many many many stables as well, and and old covered wagon. So clearly they are still using this area for storage and utility vehicles. There are a few palms too- which may have been in a front yard or two. There is a plaque on the corner of Western and Las Palma which has a relief of W. Knott (from what I could see zooming in) and I suppose that is where the actual farm stand was before Orange County happened around it. It is really interesting to see this vacant stretch of sandy soil and trees which I am sure provided shade for those parking and waiting the 3 hours for the chicken dinner. I also followed the bread crumb trail to a grandson, who I suppose served on the Board of the new owners, and also worked on the "ranch". It would be nice, however very unlikely, to have a little berry farm there and a small farm stand. In the NE, farm stands are still around although not as plentiful as before. I think there are still a few farm stands left in Orange County...where everything grows and grows and grows. Including its population.
ReplyDeleteBu, it’s too bad you missed some of the early Knott’s. As Major said, the point of going to Knott’s was that it was not Disneyland. Sometimes you just want a change of pace. I spent many a fun day at Knott’s as a kid and adult. Mostly in the 60s and 70s. I loved the roadside vibe – like the Haunted Shack, Mott’s Miniatures and the chicken that “played” a piano. And at night Knott’s had an “easy going” feeling to it. I wish I could go back to the Ghost Town of my youth and enjoy its special ambience.
ReplyDeleteBu, it seems like a case of “damning with faint praise” when the thing you liked about it was the old dirt parking lot! “Man, that dirt with the trees is great”. If anybody doesn’t like Knott’s, nothing I say will change their mind, I guess it’s like certain types of food or music. Either you like it or you don’t. I’m not sure if the lot and plaque that you mentioned are still there, I hope they are. Taking a ride on the Knott’s railroad, it’s kind of disheartening to find oneself staring at wooden walls, put up to hide the view of Buena Park strip malls and local businesses. I agree, it would be great if they had a little berry farm on the property, but executives won’t see the point in something as charming and historic as that.
ReplyDeleteSunday Night, I agree with you 100%! It’s hard to convey just how much fun Knott’s was to me when I was around 10 years old. We would be dropped off with friends (believe it or not) and run around, going to all of our favorite rides and locations. We’d visit our favorite “peek-ins”, get french fries and ice-cold boysenberry juice, pan for gold, and have a wonderful time.
As Mike says, when Knott’s first opened their railroad in 1952, #41 sported the D&RGW “bumblebee” scheme (which strikes me as a little odd, considering the locomotive actually came from the Rio Grande Southern) while #40 wore paint that was obviously inspired by the “bumblebee” scheme but reversed the black and yellow. The color scheme in today’s photo wasn’t applied to #41 until a few years later, and as Mike also mentioned, the paint on #40 (later returned to its original number, #340) changed over the years as well, with the yellow turning to orange and the black to dark green. Today, #41 is black and has been relettered for the RGS.
ReplyDeleteThe Rio Grande’s “bumblebee” scheme was actually developed for their diesel locomotive fleet in the ‘40s and wouldn’t have been accurate for the Old West period depicted at Knott’s, so I understand them wanting to change it, but I‘m obviously not on board with what they came up with to replace it for #41. Narrow gauge #268 was given a “bumblebee” paint job for the 1949 Chicago Rail Fair (incidentally - and fatefully - attended by Walt Disney & Ward Kimball) to draw a connection between their past and the then-modern era. That locomotive retained the scheme for the 1952 Western Denver & Rio Grande, and a few other locomotives (notably #319 and #345, which was painted as #268 and acting as its stunt double) received the scheme as well for the film, again to draw parallels with the modern railroad that generously allowed the production to film on their rails.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again....I love 1970s pics of Knott's.
ReplyDeleteIsn't dressing that poor monkey up in clothes and making him "perform" for guests, some form of "teasing" or cruelty? I'm glad that we've come a little bit further since then, in the treatment of animals. I don't remember the organ grinder and his monkey, but I do remember the Monkey Cage, over by the models of the California missions. And speaking of monkey cages, whatever happened to GDB commenter, "Monkey Cage Kurt"?
The button on the kid in the 1974 pic is homemade and reads, "Nixon In '76." I know that doesn't make sense, because Nixon wouldn't have been able to run again in '76, even if he hadn't resigned. But that kid hadn't had a government class yet, so he didn't know anything about term limits.
Major, when I worked at Knott's in the eighties, the older guests used to say that the chicken at Knott's was not as good as it used to be. They also complained about how they used to serve pure boysenberry juice, and not the "berry" punch that we were serving in the eighties. However, at that time, Knott's was still rated number one for food, in the theme park industry and had been for many consecutive years. The burgers sold at Knott's were charbroiled, and I thought they were the best that I had ever had, when compared to the popular "fast food" chains. Knott's also used to have the best corn dogs.
Now when I go to Knotts, I won't even buy the food, if I can help it. It's super expensive (more than Disneyland, if you can believe it), and it has all gone downhill since the eighties. I did buy a burger and fries there, a couple years ago. Both were cold. I also bought a corn dog around the same time. It was burnt on the outside, and still had wet/raw batter around the hot dog in the center. So gross. The servers also move slower than molasses in January. We used to be timed by our supervisors, to make sure that we were getting the guests through the lines and served, as quickly as possible. Obviously, that is no longer a priority. You can stand in line for 30 minutes or more, and not even take one single step closer to the counter where you order. It's disgraceful. I don't think management cares anymore. Oh, and the berry punch is totally watered down now.
Wow, this is the first time ever, that I was told my comment was too long to publish! And I thought that I wrote some really long comments for some posts. Here's the rest of my comments:
ReplyDeleteBu, I have seen that plaque many times when leaving Knott's and driving north on Western Ave. I could be wrong, but I think it is fairly "new." I only started noticing it a few years before the pandemic started. I've wanted to stop and see what it's all about, but there isn't a place next to it, where you can stop. You'd have to park across the street and walk over to it. I'm going to do it, one of these days. There was a plaque that used to be next to the Original Berry Stand, when it was still standing. When they bulldozed the stand for a roller coaster, they moved the plaque behind Whiskey Bill and Handsome Brady. I am curious to see what this newer plaque says. As you said, maybe it designates the original location of the Original Berry Stand. Or maybe it's the spot that Walter Knott stood on, the day that he cursed the hippies, and used them as his reason to put up a wall and start charging admission. Oh, and during the "Boysenberry Festival" in the Spring, Knott's does sell boysenberry plants. They claim that "Every single boysenberry plant in the world, can be traced back to Knott's Berry Farm." Maybe so, but then again, maybe not. Don't they think that it's possible that someone, somewhere else in the world, grafted their own raspberry, blackberry and loganberry plants together, to make their own boysenberry plant? The Knott Family and even now Cedar Fair, can really be full of themselves sometimes. They did plant a few boysenberry vines in the spot where the Church of Reflections used to sit. There is also a sign there, that gives the history of the boysenberry.
When I worked at Knott's, the hangings during Halloween Haunt involved hanging a "witch." They tweaked the show every so many years. At one point, they changed it to "The Witch's Revenge," where all the witches that had been hung in the past, came back for revenge on the crowd. Then some time after I left, they switched gears and made the show a comedy, and would skewer things from pop culture of that current year. The shows were definitely Rated "R". They would kill multiple "celebrities" for their offensive movies, television shows, singing, etc., by shooting them throughout the course of the show. At the end of the show, the celebrity who they found THE most offensive, would get hung. I can see where someone in management thought it was finally time to end those shows, even though almost the entire Haunt event is full of blood and gore. I believe the last year for "The Hanging" show was 2018.
Here's the plaque that used to be located next to the "Original Berry Stand," for over 50 years. Some time after they bulldozed the "Original Berry Stand," they mounted the plaque onto the wall of the Gold Trails Hotel, behind the heads of Whiskey Bill and Handsome Brady:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.flickr.com/photos/ocarchives/48046078311
I've tried looking for the newer plaque that Bu mentioned, at the corner of Western and La Palma Avenues, but couldn't find anything. The next time I am in the area, I am going to stop and check it out.
Chuck, once again I am feeling guilty, since one of my readers (YOU, often) has clearly done a lot more research than I ever did! With picture links and everything. But the good news is that I was able to catch up on “Stranger Things Season 4”, so there’s that. As for the yellow, red, and brown livery, for me it’s that chocolate-milk brown that I really don’t like. The red and yellow don’t bother me that much. Just curious if you feel the same! Maybe not. I have to admit that I love that “bumblebee” paint job on #268, even if it wasn’t historically accurate. Thanks for the super-interesting and well-researched comment!
ReplyDeleteTokyoMagic!, I was hoping you would like these. I’d like to believe that the monkey was loved and treated well by his handler, but you make a good point, dressing him up and making him beg for money is not that cool. Sure, it’s OK for ME. I’m a natural performer. I think Monkey Cage Kurt has moved on to other blogs, though at one point he said that he still reads, but doesn’t comment anymore. We’ll never know! I am wearing a “Nixon in ’76” button right now, so I feel sympatico with that kid. I am not surprised at all that the food at Knott’s is not what it used to be. In fact, when I went to the “Knott’s Preserved” event (was that where I first met you?), I remember the boysenberry punch was SO watery. I was really disappointed. My memories of ice-cold boysenberry punch was that it was intense and delicious, full of berry flavor. The stuff that I had at the KP event seemed like they filled the glass 1/3 with that old punch, and then used water for the rest. It’s a shame that they have let the food get so bad at KBF, do they get complaints but nobody cares? Or do people just keep their expectations low for an amusement park? The thought of that corn dog with the burned outside and the wet batter is really gross! I somehow thought that KBF was a wonderful oasis if you wanted to get away from the crowds and commercialism of Disneyland, but it sounds like they’ve really let the food service go to hell.
TokyoMagic!, I started to think that I was the only person who got the “your message is too long” notice! In a way I’m glad that they added that plaque, it’s nice. I’m still surprised that they didn’t just move the berry stand when they built that coaster, but I guess it wasn’t actually the original berry stand anyway, and they figured “Who cares”. I’ll bet Walter Knott loved hippies, one look at his photos and you can tell that he was all in on the counter culture. I’ve heard the legend that every boysenberry plant can be traced to Knott’s, and like you, I am skeptical. I like the idea! My friend has boysenberries in his backyard, now I have no reason to drive to Buena Park. As for the Halloween hangings, I heard a podcast that talked about it, and I think that they remarked on the super-inappropriate “funny” stuff that the hosts would say. Like maybe racist or sexist, or something like that. I wish I could remember specifics. Kind of weird that they would “kill” celebrities, I guess if you are in the public eye, you are fair game? I’m glad to hear that they ended the hanging bit a few years ago, but am surprised that it lasted that long.
TokyoMagic!, thanks for the link to that photo of that plaque! I’d love to see what the one on La Palma looks like.