Today I have two nice Rainbow Caverns Mine Train photos for you, from April 1959. This was pre-"Mine Train Through Nature's Wonderland", of course!
I love this first unusual view, taken from inside the cab of one of the little locomotives. What an experience it must have been to get to ride up front! I'd also want to ride further back in one of the open-air cars for better viewing, but hey, I can ride it twice. You can see just a bit of Rainbow Ridge to our right, including a potbellied stove and lanterns in front of the General Store. The curved track heads into that tunnel, through which you would emerge into the beautiful "Beaver Valley" scene.
Our photographer turned around and took this photo right after the train emerged from that very tunnel. Notice the folks on mules above the tunnel, they are heading away from that rustic bridge that crossed the waterfall.
Notice the clock next to the engineer's hand - I've read about how Jungle Cruise skippers sometimes went through that ride faster than expected, much to Walt's displeasure. I wonder if there was a similar issue with the Mine Train, and that clock was there to help keep the engineers "honest"? I'm also trying to figure out what that other device is, it almost looks like a TV clicker or button for an automatic garage door. Ideas?
On October 11th of 1959, the Rainbow Caverns Mine Train would close for a major upgrade to "Nature's Wonderland", opening on May 28th, 1960.
Major-
ReplyDeleteThat 'other' device is a Surface-mounted Push-button Counter - still available these times. Presume it was used to count the guests.
Love the view from the engine. Although I have no memory of it, I did ride up there when the attraction became the Mine Train Thru Nature's Wonderland - if not before that.
Thanks, Major.
Nanook's explanation is all well and good but- Gah! I say. That 'clicker' has me totally flummoxed! Notice how part of the clock face overlaps the mysterious device WHERE IT LOGICALLY AND TOPOGRAPHICALLY SHOULDN'T! (unless I'm just interpreting it incorrectly.) It's like an M.C.Escher drawing where corners and columns appear in impossible places.
ReplyDeleteAnd as if that weren't enough, the 'clock' doesn't appear to be a clock at all; the numbers aren't arranged correctly.
QUICK- EVERYBODY PUT ON YOUR TINFOIL HATS! The aliens are afoot!
Thanks for giving me a headache, Major. (And thanks for the pictures. ;-)
JB....and that ring must be tied in, too?! Like one from Major’s boxes of stuff...
ReplyDeleteVery unusual cab view today. Now with Genie the guests could pay extra and ride with engineer .... assuming they count even get a reservation!!
ReplyDeleteMaybe the attraction castmember was required to count the guests to verify that each of the guests that left returned back to Rainbow Ridge .
Major-
ReplyDeleteAlso... the "clock" is actually a mechanical interval timer. These were used primarily in labs, dark rooms, for x-rays, and apparently Mine Trains-! I remember these from many a 'science' class in both junior and senior high schools.
I think that's a kitchen timer, and the engineer is baking chocolate chip cookies in the train's tender.
ReplyDelete- Tokyo (Corn) Meal!
That’s actually a dive clock so the skipper can keep track of how long they’ve been submerged. The red button next to it is for blowing the ballast tanks to rapidly surface in case of an emergency. Guests and crew suffering from the bends would be rushed to a backstage isobaric chamber located just behind Mineral Hall.
ReplyDeleteNanook beat me to it! The "clock" is a timer. The face is divided up into 10 sections (presumably minutes) and the lever on top in pulled over to restart (and wind) it. The short hand on the front is where you set it, and the large hand is the hand that moves as time passes.
ReplyDeleteThe "clicker" is an interplanetary signaling device that was responsible for the Great Incursion of 1961.
I was very happy to see the title of today's post.
ReplyDeleteI never got to ride in the nose cone of the Mine Train, or on the Monorail engine, or on the flight deck of the Mark Twain.
I sure miss this quiet little ride.
Thanks Major!
JG
@ Stu29573-
ReplyDeleteHERE'S a better view of the timer. As you can see in today's image, the timer has been rotated 90° CCW. Evidently General Electric sold more than one version of this timer over its manufacturing run - including one with a wire 'handle' across the top, and one made in Germany.
Nanook, I guess those were the days before they had counters on all of the exit turnstiles? The pilot should have clicked the clicker a lot more so that they would have never gotten rid of the Mine Train.
ReplyDeleteJB, that clock thingy was in the seventh dimension. Don’t worry about it! Is this the first mention of M.C. Escher on this blog? Could be. The “clock” reminds me of the one on my grandma’s old stove, though it is definitely not your standard 12-hour clock face. Maybe it is a metric clock.
Lou and Sue, that is a big, chunky ring, I’ll bet it has a cool skull on it or something. Probably from Ralson’s wheat flakes cereal. Just send in five box tops.
Mike Cozart, yes, the people with fat wallets can ride in good seats with a clear view, while the “poors” can sit in empty train cars like hobos. Even that’s too good for ‘em! You make a good point, after all, they did warn guests that mountain lions might want to eat you.
Nanook, I’d love to know how exactly they used the interval timer. Did it keep track of the round trip? Thanks for the info today!
TokyoMagic!, I prefer to call them “toll house cookies”, even though I have no idea why they have that name. Imagine riding the mine train while smelling the aroma of baking cookies! They could have placed a cookie vendor right by the exit. $$$$
Chuck, it is good to have someone who is experienced in scuba diving, because you just never know. Maybe some of the guests suffered from nitrogen narcosis, which sounds fun. But not the bends, that sounds un-fun.
Stu29573, it sounds like you have some experience with that kind of timer? Were you a Mine Train pilot? Or maybe you played one on TV. I can’t help wondering if they stopped using those timers when they switched over to the Nature’s Wonderland Mine Train.
JG, the first time I ever rode on the Monorail (which wasn’t until I was a bit older, weirdly) I expressed an interest in waiting to sit in the nose cone, and he couldn’t have cared less! Why wait longer? I should have stood my ground!
Nanook, so funny, as soon as you said that the timer was rotated 90 degrees it all became clear! So dumb that I didn’t notice. I wish a former Mine Train pilot would chime in about these timers, that would be awesome.
Major, I just used one pretty much like it while doing photographic development type stuff.
ReplyDeleteBeen a while folks for me to chime in. Timers were not used back during my tenure (early-mid 70s). Likely they were used as the trip probably lasted just a few short minutes. So while you were manually spieling at the time you could be traveling a bit too fast..and not keeping the proper interval between trains.
ReplyDeleteI am going to post this one on the Mine Train site to see if one of my former CMs...those before my time that is...recollect using them.
BTW.. I was always surprised how few folks asked to sit in the cab. Didn't mind though because I enjoyed each and every trip and the quiet solitude. The CM's hand is on the gearshift. All battery propelled. KS
I remember my dentist using a timer like that one whenever I had to get that nasty fluoride treatment with those horrid wax trays. Gah, what torture for a kid.
ReplyDeleteLove these unusual views from my very favorite attraction that I never actually got to experience!
Some day we'll see some never-before-seen color images from inside the cavern. I just know it.
@Nanook and @Stu29573 are correct.
ReplyDeleteAlthough automatic film processors were in use "in the trade" we still used these timers while tray developing film (and prints)at Pasadena City College. I still have one (looks just like the picture Nanook added)that my dad used when he had a home film lab setup in our garage circa 1960's.
Stu29573, that makes sense!
ReplyDeleteKS, I’m sure it would be hard to judge how fast you are going (or should be going). But, just like the Jungle Cruise, I’m sure Walt wanted folks to see the animals and rock formations and geysers that he’d paid so much to build! Thank you for asking your CM buddies, I’d love to hear if you learn anything. If I was a Mine Train pilot, I would definitely prefer to be up there without passengers right on top of me!
Tom, ha ha, I guess I somehow avoided the fluoride treatment, maybe I lived in places that had fluoridation in the water. However, I’ve endured other yucky dental treatments! If we ever see nice color images from inside the cavern, I hope they will be from my collection!
Alonzo, ah, Pasadena City College! I used to love their swap meets. More manageable than the Rose Bowl version, and they had their record collector section where I used to love to get bootlegs. As for film developing, I always wished that I’d taken a basic photography class where I would learn about lenses, f-stops, and film developing.
To DW, concerning yesterday's comments. My Dad was in the 460th bomb group. You never know, they might have met.
ReplyDeleteNanook, you reminded me of when I worked the front desk at an art museum, and I had to count the guests with a clicker as they came in the door. The one we used looked a lot like a joy buzzer, and fit into your hand the same way so you could be unobtrusive about it.
ReplyDeleteMajor...here's what I have heard back....
ReplyDelete"We didn't use any timers on any of the live spiel attractions but reading the blog article reminds me that one of the long term (older ?) Sound Department guys who fixed and replaced sound tapes told me they use to try different methods of triggering the sound and animation in the early days. The idea was to use a coded tone or sound to start the animation or sound but it got interference from VHF radio traffic which used similar tones. The only guest counts I can recall are the "turnstile counts" . Possibly there was an attempt by someone to double check the turnstile numbers as I do know certain foremen who would flip the turnstile to get a higher hourly to impress someone or "set a record"."
1
DrGoat- Same time, same place- as you said, you never know. It's neat to think that they may have crossed paths.
ReplyDeleteMajor- Cool "you are there" mine train photos today. I'm so used to seeing the locomotives & cars with the lighter colors- this looks so different.
-DW
DrGoat, I have some old pinback buttons with military insignia on them, I wonder if any of them have the 460th bomb group?? I’ll have to look!
ReplyDeleteMelissa, I guess it’s better to be unobtrusive, but I’ve gone to other places where somebody has a clicker and they made no attempt to hide it!
KS, thank you so much! The idea of triggering the sound and animation is interesting, and sound very likely. I do remember the “tumbling rocks” not moving until our train got within range, I just assumed that there was some sort of “electric eye” that was triggered. Funny that foremen would try to fudge the numbers by spinning the turnstiles. Unless the park was very crowded, it would seem unlikely that a record would be set!
DW, considering how I have run into people who I haven’t seen for years, and the last time I saw them was thousands of miles away, it seems very possible that DrGoat and your dad could have crossed paths! Glad you liked these Mine Train photos, I really love them.
That was actually my first thought that the control was used by the engineer to activate the animal , balancing rocks animation etc. but I figured they had some activation lenses along the track .... but maybe a remote control would have been more simple in 1956-1960.
ReplyDeleteI left this off the last past:
ReplyDeleteIn the 80’s and early 90’s the Mark Twain pilot had to still manually advance the audio carte narration to the next scene .... I recall one time in the wheelhouse a friend of mine was piloting the Mark Twain and he got distracted with us there and had to skip advance some of the narration ....
KS, thanks so much for the CM backstory. Remote triggers, guest count shenanigans, I love it. Sounds like so much fun, these are the details I really love to hear.
ReplyDeleteDr. Goat, DW, great stories. Thank you.
Major, these conversations are so wonderful, thank you for hosting.
JG
Mike, your last comment reminds me of the JC skipper story I read where the skipper purposely rattled off his spiel exactly one scene late, at each scene the boat came to. :oD
ReplyDeleteMajor, I especially love the first 'you are there in the the cab' photo! Fun and interesting comments, today, too. Thank you.
This is a follow-up to two GDB posts ago, regarding the clicker and elevator operators. I mentioned I would ask my dad some questions, and I did, yesterday...
My dad was an elevator operator at two different locations, at two different times in his younger years. Both times, these were his second jobs. He was an elevator operator for Commonwealth Edison at 72 W. Adams, and also for Evans (but there were other companies in that same building) at 36 S. State Street - both buildings located in Chicago. He wore navy blue uniforms with hats (resembling train conductor hats) and had to announce the floor numbers, but no other spiel. He didn't recall the use of any clicker - but he was intrigued by the idea, when I mentioned it. He liked the job(s) as he got to know all the building employees and made friends with them. They didn't have 'elevator music' [yes, I asked him that question]. He couldn't recall any interesting stories, but I'll bug him again, in the future, to see if I can jar his memory.
I always love hearing the inside scoop from former CMs. And now you know... the rest of the story.
ReplyDeleteAll the elevator discussion from yesterday and today brought back a childhood memory of when our elderly neighbor fell on one of those old-fashioned wooden escalators at the local Rothschild’s. She wasn’t seriously injured, but there was a lot of blood (or so it seemed to little me; I couldn’t have been older than four and hadn’t seen a lot of blood before).
ReplyDeleteIn a Doris Day movie there is a reoccurring scene of the large elevator hallway in a large office tower ( late 50’s or early 60’s) of course the dialog between the rival agency’s characters is limited between passengers getting on and off the floors ... anyway , in the lobby is a series of elevator “conductors” .... all ladies ... but the elevator operators are different positions. The elevator conductors - all in uniforms- have clickers .... that make a clicking noise. I cannot tell if the girls are counting the number of guests getting into the elevators or signaling the attention of passengers to know which elevator is next. (???) the elevator scenes really stand out in the film ... but I have a feeling the whole operator .... conductor ... clickers must have been a common activity in large office buildings in major cities during this time...... a detail and memory quickly fading from people’s memories now....
ReplyDeleteMy mom was an executive secretary at Convair and general dynamics in the 1960’s ..... and some of her stories sound straight out of a Doris Day movie!!! Things like the secretaries watching office palms grow outta control because of personnel dumping their cold coffee into the plant pots ....or when they installed “anti-fire” waste cans in the offices .... special trash cans to stop fires from smoking workers dropping lit cigarettes into the office waste cans!! Of my ( at the time ) unmarried mom fending off guys in the office hounding my mom to go out with her and she replying with period sayings like “ blast off!” , “ beat it!” Or “ Get outta town!”” My mom still uses those sayings .... my friends love it! They say she sounds like she’s from The Donna Reed show!!
Blogs line this will help keep alive long forgotten things like Rock and animal animstion remotes ... and profession elevator operators and anti-fire office waste cans!!
Mike, I would love to trade stories with your mom! I was an executive secretary from age 19 (late 1970s) til my late 20’s - shorthand and all. I got in on the tail end of the good years - when you were appreciated and treated well. Still use the shorthand...I bet she does, too, for jotting down notes.
ReplyDeleteMike Cozart, that was my “based on no knowledge” guess as well, clicking to activate some show effects. Although… you’d think the pilot would need the thing in his hand, since he’d presumably have to use it every few seconds.
ReplyDeleteMike Cozart, when you say “manually advance”, do you mean something like fast-fowarding?
JG, I agree, I can’t get enough of the inside info!
Lou and Sue, those darn Jungle Cruise skippers, they were always up to something! I feel like that was probably the one position where you could really get away with silliness, since that was the whole point of the job. Thank you for finding out the info about Lou’s time as an elevator operators… interesting for us, and great for you to know that bit of his history as well! Didn’t your mom also work for Commonwealth Edison? Is that where she and Lou met? “Elevator music” was Lou whistling the latest hits. That’s where Laszlo Muzak got the idea!
Melissa, now I need the *outside* scoop.
Melissa, yikes. I’ve seen people stumble on escalators, but have never seen anybody fall and injure themselves. But those metal steps do have those sharp edges. Like I said, YIKES.
Mike Cozart, I’m not saying anything very new here, but part of the fun of watching old movies is seeing the way people lived and worked 40, 50, 60 years ago (and more). I love scenes of actors driving around L.A., since I am more familiar with the general area than if somebody was driving around NYC. Now that you mention the thing with the elevator “conductors” with the clickers, it makes me think that I have seen something like that too, though I can’t say whether it was in a Doris Day movie or not. Your mom sounds like a hoot, I love the thought of a brassy dame telling some junior executive to “blast off”! Like you said, it’s like she was a TV character.
Lou and Sue, I’ll bet Mike’s mom would love to trade stories with you! Let’s make this happen!!
Major, you're right, my mom also worked at Com Ed (as a switchboard operator - where she'd plug in the phone wires for each call), but she started there a few years after my dad, as she was 7 years younger.
ReplyDeleteI 'came about' because my dad was a jokester. He grew up in the same neighborhood as my mom, and he liked playing jokes on people - including his friend's mom, Mrs. Petersen. When my dad got drafted and went overseas, Mrs. Petersen decided to play a joke on him, and she asked a young 15-year-old neighbor girl to start writing phony love letters to my dad - pretending to be in love with him. Yep, that young girl was my mom. The joke backfired and they ended up falling in love. Now, here I am. And, yes, I do have some of those treasured love letters.
“Lou And Sue” ..... how your parents met is fantastic-that really sounds like a Doris Day movie!!
ReplyDeleteThere was an ideal ride time for the Mine Trains (9 minutes in the Nature's Wonderland era) and perhaps this was used for newer operators to help them get a sense of the speed needed at different points of the loop. It takes some practice as I know from operating the steam locomotive at Poway for nearly 20 years. There's no speedometer or timer on board though sometimes newer engineers are coached with a supervisor timing the trip to help them out.
ReplyDeleteThere were different configurations of staffing for the Mine Train depending on how many cast members were working and how many trains sere running. On the green trains (1956-1959) there was usually a driver and a brakeman/narrator who sat on a shelf on the back of the 6th ore car.
On the yellow trains (1960-1977) there were 7 ore cars and no seat in the back. The only person on the train was the driver who also narrated (point of pride) when they were not using the recorded spiel on the 8-track player with a button to advance to the next recording at certain points of the trip.
An operator told me that the animations were triggered by a bar on the tender on the right side (hidden to guests at the loading platform) that would trigger levers. This is more reliable than a light beam because of the chance of sunlight triggering it at the wrong time, etc.
Finally, the Beaver Valley scene was not added until the 1960 Nature's Wonderland upgrade. After passing through the tunnel, the first landmark was the Natural Arch Bridge as they headed into the desert. It was a shorter train trip in the green train era.
Lou and Sue, oh darn, I was SURE that you were going to say that your folks met at Com Ed. And yet… the real story is even better!
ReplyDeleteMike Cozart, yes, Sue’s mom played by Doris, Lou played by Rock Hudson.
keeline, that makes sense, I’m sure that after a while an experienced ride operator could time the speed of the train fairly accurately. Hmm, I guess I always assumed that locomotives had some sort of speedometer! So much for that. I’ll have to go back and look at my (not many) photos of the old green mine trains to see if I can spy the brakeman/narrator! I’d love it if I have one on film. I’m sure most of us have heard the Dal McKinnon spiel, but I didn’t know that an operator could choose to narrate the ride if they felt like it. A physical mechanism triggering the animations makes more sense, definitely. I know that the Mine Train was greatly expanded when the Nature’s Wonderland additions were put in. I’d love to see a pre-1960 ride spiel, even just in print! Thanks for all the info.
I was lucky enough to ride in the cab of the Mine Train once as a kid. The CM just asked if I wanted to without me requesting it. It's one of my favorite Disneyland memories. Thanks unknown CM!
ReplyDelete