I want all of you to put on your $3,000 VR headsets and take a ride on the Disneyland Railroad with me - 1950's STYLE! These first two scans are very unusual, I don't think I have anything else quite like them. Or maybe I do? Who knows. As you can see, our photographer has leaned out of one of the old "cattle cars" (Maybe the photos were taken by a cow??) to capture a look at the water tower, which I believe is in its original location (not far from the Plantation House).
We're headin' around the bend, with Frontierland Station dead ahead. Well, not dead, just kind of sleepy.
Speaking of Frontierland Station...! I love the gingerbread details, which feel "just right" for this remote outpost. Elegant, but not foofy. I've always wondered if the circular part of the decorative trim in the lower right was meant to evoke the Santa Fe (original sponsor of the Disneyland RR) logo?
See how the logo is at an angle on this old brochure?
Major-
ReplyDeleteYeah - these are real beauties. I do believe these iamges really are unique additions to the collection.
Thanks, Major.
These are unusual. In a good way! We can see the water tower in the second photo, too. It's just beyond the train station.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the unusual views today, Major!
Hmm, so the water tower was on the opposite side of the tracks back then? Or is the photographer (cow) looking back toward the rear of the train?
ReplyDeleteI wonder if that slope of blooming ground cover was just bare dirt when the Park first opened? It would only take a couple of months to fill in like we see it here.
That round piece of trim certainly looks like it could be an homage to Santa Fe. As Bu is fond of saying, "someone knows". Or maybe we could "Ask Mr. Foster", like it says on the Grand Canyon brochure. Maybe he would know!
I seem to have more questions than usual today. Oh well. Thanks for the rare photos, Major.
Major: interesting thought regarding the depot corbels & Santa Fe…. But not likely. The Frontierland depot of course is based on the station for the film So Dear to my Heart ….. ( and later on Ward Kimball’s Grizzly Flats Depot) and that station is built from plans from a railroad structures book of a 1880’s flagstop depot that was acutely from an Eastern railroad …. The corbel brackets appear the same for all 3 versions of the depot ….the first two being the prototype and the film facade had nothing to do with the Santa Fe Railroad. What is interesting is that the only thing that survives of the original Grizzly Flatts depot is a few feet of the original roof trim and a single corbel bracket … both removed years ago to be used as patterns to replace rotted pieces from the original set. The full depot sadly burned to the ground in the severe California wild fires a few years ago.
ReplyDeleteNo if you wondered if the 1958 Santa Fe & Disneyland Railroad Grand Canyon Diorama attraction poster copied colors from a real Santa Fe 1957 Grand Canyon travel Promotional campaign you’d be spot on!
I think that North directional view of the water tank is the first such image I’ve seen … of course a south view of the tank on that side was featured in guidebooks , postcards and early press photos of Disneyland.
Oh wow oh wow oh wow oh wow! These are some truly unique photos, taken before the freight train was converted into Holiday Red.
ReplyDeleteNote the ladder rungs bolted onto the side of the cattle cars to allow access to the roof, an authentic detail that, while it may not have actually been used very often (if ever), certainly added a level of realism you wouldn’t expect to see in a “Tier Two” amusement park. Also note that we can see three cattle cars but no open-top gondola cars, indicating that the cars were being run in a different order than shown in this classic post card. I am curious if they were together near the rear of the train or possibly not being run at all while having awnings installed.
JB, yes, the tower was originally located on the “Park” side of the tracks. If you look closely in the first photo, you can also see the Frontierland restrooms beyond the water tower, designed to look like a freight house. This structure was also moved across the tracks along with the depot and water tower in I think 1962 and became a break room. It suffered a significant fire in early 2023 but I believe is being rebuilt as part of the current Haunted Mansion remuddling project.
Thanks, Major, for some really fun photos!
A very beautiful view can be seen in the photo
ReplyDeleteI agree, these are unique views, and wonderful too.
ReplyDeleteI’ve said before and I will keep saying it, the Frontierland Station is my favorite building in the Park. Just a little gem. It’s kind of a shame it is locked away out of reach now.
Major, I like your theory about the logo, seems very plausible, but I will defer to Mike on the history.
Chuck, those ladder rungs are there so James Bond and Indiana Jones can get on the roof to fight bad guys, everyone knows this. I think even Jason Stathem uses them.
Thank you Major!
JG
These clearly are some very unique views, and no wonder we are all aghast by them....I went down the rabbit hole to the Frontierland Station origins...the building is one of my favorites in the Park and always has been. There was always something "mysterious" and "untouched" by the building on the outer berm that no one goes in, and no one comes out. (Like the Wonka Factory.) Of course, we all knew what it was...but it was a nice piece of pre-Disneyland Disneyland that was still intact. I went into the Zillow listing of Ward Kimballs house: a big piece of property for sure in So. Cal...the house a normal sized ranch for the San Gabriel Valley, in an "normal" part of town. Very much an easy trek over to Burbank/Glendale...the kitchen in the house is quite amazing...if you are into the vintage kitchen thing..."Grizzly Flats" I hear that John Lassiter moved it to his property...and that possibly is where it burnt down (?) Very sad indeed, but apparently, when Ward got it from Walt: it was no more than a backlot set with no back...and he had to fortify the entire thing to be somewhat inhabitable. Sets are not built to last, and will go up like a chimney. I was in the presence of Ward Kimball a couple of times, and like most times with most other people of his ilk I was more interested in my costume and hair being perfect: so many missed opportunities, and now I kick myself a bit. Vanity does no one any good. Back to the Frontierland station, and WHO actually designed this set that was designed after a set...I like that it is Victorian without being tooooo Victorian...with stoic fretwork and such...nothing too curly-Q. The train is a whole other thing...but it's nice to see people hanging out of the car a bit: looking foward, and the "carpet" on the berm is just sweet as can be: as it should be for a "nice park"....I'm a bit worried for the time that there is no one around that experienced Disneyland in it's infancy. I remember in the 80's and talking to Park employees that were there on opening day...and it seemed like such a long time ago back then...and now it's FORTY years from THAT time....the mind boggles....write down all your stories. Thanks Major.
ReplyDeleteNanook, I was pretty happy to find these!
ReplyDeleteTokyoMagic!, I have to stop writing my blog posts while only looking at the thumbnails.
JB, yes, the water tower was on the “inside” side of the tracks, surprisingly. Maybe they thought that guests would want a good look at it? I’d say it’s a pretty good bet that most of the park was bare dirt when it opened, they did so much last-minute work. Maybe Bu knows about the decorative trim on the train station!
Mike Cozart, I know that the Frontierland depot was based on the one from “So Dear To My Heart”, etc, but that particular detail seems unusual and specific (to me) - there could have been an infinite variety of other shapes for those corbels (wasn’t sure if they were technically “corbels”). I’m sure that they had the Santa Fe sponsorship nailed down long before the station was built, and perhaps somebody thought it would be nice to add a subtle nod to them? It’s all just a guess of course. Such a tragedy that Ward’s Grizzly Flats depot burned down, I remember reading about that. I did not know that the Grand Canyon Diorama attraction poster was based on a previous graphic! Early Viewmasters show the water tank on that inner side of the park.
Chuck, I’m glad you liked these! It sure seems as if Walt and his boys strived for authenticity on the Railroad, so details like the ladder rungs would have been included without question. I wonder how it was decided as to which cars were place in which order? Not having a specific date (even the year) makes it hard to determine details for pictures like these. The old “cattle cars” that required standing for the entire Grand Circle Tour might have seemed like a good idea at some point, but I don’t think I would want to ride that way. I like to give my feet and legs a rest! Ugh, that Haunted Mansion construction really has me stressed out.
mas, yes, they are good ones!
JG, the last time I was at the park, we were all pretty surprised that we were not allowed to get off the train at the Frontierland (New Orleans Square) depot! I’m still not sure why, since it seemed as if that would not have interfered with any necessary work. Those rungs are also handy for hobos!
Bu, I always wondered if you, as a Disneyland employee, had ever had a reason to go into the Frontierland depot when it was on the other side of the tracks. I guess not? Was it “off limits” unless you were a DLRR employee? I’ll bet they had all of the ice cold sodas and the best candy in there. I always wished that SOMEHOW I might get to see Ward’s private railroad back when he was still alive, but no such luck. I was an anonymous nobody back then, not a world-famous blogger. When I worked at the Studio, Ward’s son John worked in the same building as me, one floor up. Somebody said, “You should go talk to him!”, and I thought, “What the heck would I say?”. So I never did. It’s not like I have strong regrets about it, but I wish I wasn’t so socially lame! I used to see Ward’s daughter Chloe at a restaurant that had live music - at least somebody told me that it was her, I have no idea if it really was. I did meet Ward once, long ago, at an animation gallery in Woodland Hills (along with Frank and Ollie, June Foray, and Grim Natwick). He was nice, but as usual I was too lame to say anything intelligent. I probably said, “Duhhh!”. I think Ward himself might have contributed to the design of Frontierland Station, my understanding is that he owned some antique books that showed designs of many train stations.
the Frontierland depot’s backside ( hidden since the 1966 relocation ) is identical to the track facing side - with bay ticket window. I’ve taken people into the the depot when it still used the audio carte for the telegraph ticket. That was replaced in the 90’s with a cd disc located in the Frontierland /New Orleans square soundroom ( The Creole Hotel facade) it was interesting that even when the old audio carte player mechanism was in use the old wider TAPE-A-Thon reel player box mechanism from c. 1966 was still mounted on the wall- tape less - of course. This has since been removed. The rest of the depot interior was stripped of its waiting room and ticket agent wall probably during the 1966 move. In the early 90’s two wood wall frames - that held Santa Fe &DL RR posters ( those had been moved to decorating and feature artwork that used to be in DL RR tickets !!) were removed from the Frontierland depot interior … refinished and relocated into the Main Street station where they are today used as glass display wall cases featuring Disneyland RR collectibles .
ReplyDeleteMajor : I have a copy of a 1970’s reprint of that same Anerican Railroad Structures book originally from the 1800’s that Disney set designers used to create the Grizzly Flatts & Frontierland Depots down at my mom’s . I’ll get images of it for you so that you can see the plans for the depot’s “wheeled” center corbels look Almost identical to the ones Disney replicated for the film prop and later for Disneyland ….. and not something rushed 1954 imagineers created for Santa Fe Railroad. Again the inspiration of the little flagstop depot was designed for an Eastern Railroad and even decades long before the Santa Fe RR used the criss-cross logo .
Ticket = ticking Sfx
ReplyDeleteThanks, Major and all. I AM impressed! Sooo much interesting historical info and personal experience shared today re these pictures.
ReplyDeleteI’m also VERY impressed with the cow.
I'm basking in the glow of our "world-famous blogger". :-D
ReplyDeleteMike Cozart, OK, it sounds like you have pretty solid evidence that the “crossed circle” corbels were not added just for Santa Fe’s sponsorship! Kind of an interesting coincidence, though. I’d have loved to see that old audio equipment inside the depot, but it’s not surprising that it has been removed. I was briefly in contact with a person who had two rare Santa Fe posters, I believe that they were repros made for Disneyland back in the 1950s. Daveland has some better images of them. I’ll have to ask him how the restoration was going! If I can find his email, of course. And I’d love to see some images from that book!
ReplyDeleteLou and Sue, the cow doesn’t get her due, but someday she will be as famous as Mary Blair.
JB, :-D
Mike, is it this book?
ReplyDeleteBuildings and structures of American railroads. by Berg, Walter G.
Yes that’s one of the versions . Mine is a 70’s press featuring mostly just the plans for model making.
ReplyDelete