There's the Autopia, and then there are Autotopias. You know, little car rides! All good amusement parks had them. Disneyland's versions are perhaps the most famous, but here are a few others. This first one is from the 1960s, and these sporty miniature roadsters have a pretty strong resemblance to Disney's Mark V Autopia cars - but they are a little bit different. I have no idea what park we are looking at, but would bet dollars to donuts that these cars were a product of Arrow Development. There aren't many clues, could it be Six Flags Over Texas?
This next one is from July 1971, and luckily we can read the lettering on the side of that red beauty: SIX FLAGS. Not that this narrows things down much more, because a search for Six Flags car rides reveals identical postcards from several parks, including Six Flags Over Georgia and Six Flags Over Mid-America; if I had to place money down, I'd at least guess that this photo is from either of those two parks (since other Six Flags parks had "antique auto" rides).
Major-
ReplyDeleteThose autos do look an awful lot like the vehicles used at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk Autorama, but with the steering wheels on the opposite side - which were built by arrow Development.
Thanks, Major.
"Dollars to donuts". I've never understood how that phrase came about. Then again, I've never given it much thought.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm seeing the logo on the hood correctly, these are indeed Arrow Development cars, Major. No idea where the park is located though. I do like the looks of these cars.
The Dad in the yellow car is looking back at Peter Brady in the light blue car. I think Peter just rammed them from behind. The mom in the red car reminds me of an actress, whose name I can't recall at the moment. Ellen Burstyn maybe? Probably someone else.
I have a feeling one (or more) Jr.Gs will know where these pictures were taken. Thanks, Major.
JB: I always wonder about phrases and sayings … I’m one of those people that have to ask “what does that mean ?” Or “why did that saying come about !??” One saying I hate is “ EVERYTHING FROM SOUP TO NUTS” … why those things ?? It’s not like they are opposites if really showing an example of a wide variety … it’s just odd…. And it bothers me. I had a high school teacher who used to say that phrase all the time …
ReplyDeleteI believe that Bob Cummings mispronounced "Autopia" as "Autotopia," in the "Dateline Disneyland" opening day coverage.
ReplyDeleteI've always been curious about the origins of certain phrases. Years ago, someone recommend a book to me about American idioms. I can't remember the title of it, but there must be plenty of them out there on that subject. Heck, now with the internet, we don't even have to buy books anymore! :-)
A.I. is so gosh darn smart. And just like Wikipedia, I'm sure it is NEVER wrong. We will all be better off once we let A.I. do all of our work for us. I wonder if A.I. would be so kind as to write my next blog post for me? ;-)
ReplyDeleteThe phrase "dollars to doughnuts" originated in late 19th-century America, meaning someone is so sure of something they'd bet valuable dollars against cheap doughnuts, highlighting huge odds. It's an alliterative expression for certainty, playing on the fact that a doughnut was worth only a few cents, making the bet heavily skewed (like 20-to-1) in the speaker's favor, a concept lost as doughnut prices rose
The phrase "soup to nuts" comes from the order of courses in a formal 19th-century American dinner, where the meal began with soup and ended with a dessert of nuts (like candied or fresh walnuts) or cheese, symbolizing the entire meal from start to finish. It became a popular idiom in the late 1800s for anything comprehensive, meaning "from beginning to end" or "everything," similar to the ancient Roman idea of "from egg to apple."
I think that last photo is from Six Flags Over Georgia. That building in the background appears to be Barbacoa's Restaurant which became the Peachtree Cafeteria in the years just before the modern car attraction (Six Flags also had an antique car attraction) was removed in the mid-1970s.
ReplyDeleteIf those vehicles aren’t made by the Arrow folks, then somebody has very good industrial espionage. It’s those darned Russians again, isn’t it?
ReplyDeleteI never noticed before but the these cars and yesterday’s Autopia pics show right hand drive, proving that the cars were made in the UK, or possibly Japan, or that all the photos are reversed.
Photo 2, we can see the exterior brake lever used by the attendants to bring the cars to a stop, similar to the Disney versions, which were less obvious.
Speaking of strange expressions, why “six” flags? Not five or seven? Is there some secret Masonic ritual here, like Disneyland’s address is 1313 Harbor Blvd? Thanks Tokyo for clarifying those phrases from A to Z!
Thanks Major!
JG
Well, TMAI! beat me to explaining those expressions, so that’s less typing for me.
ReplyDeleteThe first photo is of Cedar Point’s “Turnpike” ride. I’d recognize those rock-covered fill slopes anywhere.
I’m having trouble finding good photos of the ride with the original autos. THIS PHOTO FROM 1980 is the best I have found.
THIS WEBSITE shows the ride soon before it was removed in 2014. The original cars had been replaced with Shelby Cobra-themed bodies by this point, but you can see the fill slopes with their flat rock cladding.
I think the Six Flags postcard was probably taken on the Happy Motoring Freeway at Six Flags Over Texas based on the “Six Flags” lettering on the side of the car, but all three of the original Six Flags parks (Texas, Georgia, and Mid-America) had Arrow Development sports car rides in July of 1971. HERE’S A PHOTO of the example at Six Flags Over Mid-America, the Super Sports Cars. THIS LINK shows the Happy Motoring Freeway at Six Flags Over Georgia.
TM! Thans for the explanations of the phrases. I'd heard that "soup to nuts" referred to every course on a menu before, but no reasoning for "dollars to doughnuts." Though with inflation, maybe it should be "doughnuts to dollars" now.
ReplyDeleteJG, the origin of Six Flags was that the first park built by the Great Southwest Corp. was "Six Flags over Texas" reflecting the history of Texas, which was under Spain, France, Mexico, the Republic of Texas, the Confederate States, and the USA. They used to fly the flags, but referencing the CSA these days would be a PR nightmare and the origin of the name is not mentioned much.
Dean, thank you very much for this info. I can certainly see why the CSA flag would be played down in today's world.
DeleteInterestingly, here the old "pioneer's cemetery" has numerous grave headstones of CSA Civil War veterans, right alongside those of Union veterans. In Northern CA, at one time, the war was long past enough for both sides to share the same consecrated ground.
JG
Pegleg Pete, looking at 1971-maps of both SFOT & SFOG, I concur with your assessment that that postcard photo was taken at Six Flags Over Georgia. While a bit blurry when zoomed in, THIS 1971 MAP OF SFOG shows an alignment that matches perfectly with the photo. The Happy Motoring Speedway is located just above the red oval marked “Georgia” in the lower left center of the map. Track left and you will find the Peachtree Cafeteria, just beyond the Sky Ride pylon (pylon…).
ReplyDelete@ JB-
ReplyDelete"The mom in the red car reminds me of an actress, whose name I can't recall at the moment. Ellen Burstyn maybe?"
I'd say the Mom in the blue car in the 1st image looks like Ellen Burstyn from the late 1950's - early 60's. LOOK HERE.
JG, expanding on Dean Finder’s explanation, the original Six Flags company had a good branding thing going with the six flags and just reused the concept in Atlanta and St. Louis.
ReplyDeleteThe six flags over Georgia are Spain, France, Great Britain, USA, CSA, and Georgia. They could only justify four historical flags that flew over St. Louis (France, Spain, USA, and Missouri) so they expanded the concept to “Mid-America” and reached across the Mississippi to grab the last two (Great Britain and Illinois).
The company only built those three parks; all the rest that have carried a “Six Flags” name have been acquisitions of existing properties with the Six Flags branding added. As far as I know, the 2024 merger with Cedar Fair hasn’t resulted in a name change for any former Cedar Fair property, so don’t expect to see “Six Flags Knott’s Berry Farm” or “Six Flags Dorney Park.”
Great comments and impressive detective work, Pegleg Pete and Chuck! What gave the first image away as Cedar Point for me was the antique auto from the neighboring Cadillac Cars, which we can see peeking through underneath the bridge. Cedar Point was the Arrow car ride capital of the world. In addition to the two tracks for the Turnpike cars and the single track for the Cadillac cars, there was a fourth Arrow car ride in Frontier Town that was removed in 2021. That must've been a substantial gasoline bill!
ReplyDeleteGood eye, Andrew. I completely missed that.
ReplyDeleteTHIS 1971 CEDAR POINT MAP shows all of the Arrow Development car rides Andrew mentions above. The Turnpike (which had two tracks) is at left, with the Cadillac cars next to it in the one o’clock position. The Frontier Tiwn autos are in the upper right part of the peninsula.
Sorry - the Frontier Town auto ride is in the upper center part of the peninsula.
ReplyDeleteNanook, now that you say it, the vehicles do remind me of the ones at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk (I have a picture of one somewhere on this blog). But (as you hinted) the ones in Santa Cruz have the steering wheel on the other side? Hmmmm.
ReplyDeleteJB, I always assumed that “dollars to donuts” meant that I’d bet hard money to your donuts (or something else less valuable), but I never thought about it that hard! I think it’s interesting that Arrow Development made cars that are SO close to the old Mark Vs at Disneyland, but they had to make different molds (or “bucks”), Walt wouldn’t want somebody else using his cars! Peter Brady, I never trusted that jerk. Especially when he got his curly perm (as did Mr. Brady). I am waiting to see if somebody has solved these mysteries!
Mike Cozart, one thing that I don’t really understand (maybe I’m dumb) is the “Time is a flat circle” thing that people like to say. I need somebody to explain it to me like I’m a fifth grader! I think “Soup to nuts” is sort of the same as “from A to Z”, but again, could very well be wrong.
TokyoMagic!, all hail AI! Gosh, I’d love it if I could just put in some photos on Blogger and let AI write my dumb posts for me! Thank you for the definitions of those phrases, I am happy to see that I was not far off with my assumed definitions!
Pegleg Pete, wow, it sure sounds like you what you are talking about! THANKS! Very very cool.
JG, I really wonder, was there any company that made Autopia-style cars that looked as good as the ones from Arrow? Not only were they sporty looking, but apparently could really tear up the road before they put on the governors (or guvnas as I call them!). I’mm so confused by the fact that so many “little car rides” have right-hand steering wheels. WHY? Good eye on the exterior brake lever. Six Flags is all they could afford, those things ain’t cheap.
Chuck, amazing! Cedar Point, I would have never guessed, mostly because I don’t know a lot about that park. Thank you for providing those links, I’m sure you spent quite a lot of time searching - that’s how it goes sometimes. I’ve done research for non-Disneyland slides that has taken me more time than I want to admit. The later “Cobra” type bodies are pretty cool, but it is no surprise that I have more fondness for the old ones. Thanks also for the ID of Six Flags Over Texas for that second photo. So many darn Six Flags parks! I can’t keep track of them all. You rock, Chuck!
Dean Finder, I remember Ken Martinez shared some of his old Six Flags postcards, and some showed the actual six flags that you mentioned. Thank you!
Chuck, ah, Georgia instead of Texas, it’s OK, you were *right there*. With you and Pegleg Pete, it was a team effort. Thanks for the link to the map of SFOG, I swear it’s like every amusement park hired the same artist to draw their “fun maps”. Not that that’s a bad thing.
Nanook, Ellen Burstyn needed to get a break from her daughter Reagan (and her other daughter, Roosevelt)!
Chuck, they should have just made up two flags for St. Louis. How about a rock and roll flag? A barbecue flag? Ugh, Six Flags Knott’s Berry Farm, I would be very sad if that ever happened (though I agree, it is very unlikely).
Andrew, it definitely helps to know what you are talking about… even looking for the antique auto you mentioned, I’m not sure I see it. Is it to the right of that dark tree trunk? Wow, Cedar Point has FOUR car rides, incredible (though we know that Disneyland has - at times - three, which seems like a lot). Thanks Andrew.
Chuck, everything is on the Internet now! I think it would have been very easy to miss the Cadillac Cars, as I said to Andrew, even when looking for them it was not clear to me. I see the “Antique Cars” on the map in Frontier Town!
ReplyDeleteChuck, as always, I’m glad that I never make a mistake.
Mike, "From soup to nuts"- That one I know! Soup is (sometimes) the first course of a fancy meal. While nuts are usually the last course; sort of like dessert, or after dessert. Sooo, From soup to nuts is like from beginning to end, or from start to finish. i.e., everything. (I now see TM! already explained it. Oh well.)
ReplyDeleteAnother is "pulling out all the stops". Which comes from pipe organ terminology. When an organist pulls out all of the organ's stop knobs (knobs that engage the organs various sounds, ranks of pipes), then the organ is at its loudest... full blast! (Hmm, I wonder where 'full blast' came from?)
And I am also one of those people who wonder where a saying comes from, and why.
Tokyo!, I suspect a lot of us here are 'word nerds'. It sort of goes with the other things we have in common here. Thanks for the "dollars to doughnuts" explanation! Now it makes sense... sort of. (Did AI write that for you?) ;-p
I see we got a big dose of Chuck, doing his "Chuck thing" today. Thanks for the research, Chuck.
Nanook, maybe that's Ellen in both of today's pics!
Chuck again, I bow to your historic knowledge of Six Flags parks. You should update the Wikipedia article to include Great Britain, etc.
Major, told ya some Jr. Gs would come through with location identifications... Boy howdy! “Time is a flat circle”. I don't think I've heard that one. Maybe they mean "time is like a circle"? i.e., "what goes around, comes around", or "everything old is new again".
Major, i don't think you have to worry about AI writing your blog posts. AI is (so far) very clueless when it comes to humor.
Major, I just now asked AI to write a sample GDB blog post….here’s the response:
ReplyDelete“To write a commentary in the style of Gorillas Don’t Blog—a human-run archive dedicated to vintage Disneyland and Mid-Century photos—one must adopt the persona of its creator, "Major Pepperidge."
As of 2026, the blog continues to share daily "scans" of old slides with a specific voice: self-deprecating, dryly humorous, and slightly cynical toward modern technology.
Example "Gorillas Don't Blog" Style Commentary
The Scene: A blurry 1962 slide of the Mad Tea Party.
"Today we have a pair of slides from July 1962. Disneyland was only seven years old, and apparently, our photographer was already seven sheets to the wind based on the focus here.
In this first shot, we see the Mad Tea Party in all its pastel glory. Notice the young lad in the yellow saucer; he looks like he’s about to lose his lunch, or perhaps he’s just realized he’s wearing a clip-on tie to an amusement park. I recall a time when you could actually spin these things fast enough to experience actual G-force, but those days are long gone, bub!
Behind the teacups, you can just make out the edge of the Skyway pylons. I will never stop missing the Skyway, even if it did mean having gum dripped on your head from the gondola above. I’ve heard rumors that AI can now 'fix' these blurry photos, but I find the result has a metallic taste—like drinking orange juice after brushing your teeth. The oddness of these old family photos is half the charm, and I’m sticking to my blurry guns.
I hope you all have a wonderful day! I'm off to find some more 'randos' in the slide box."
^ interesting, but scary.
ReplyDeleteMajor, are YOU real??🙃
TOKYO: ah!! Ok! That’s totally makes sense!! I always knew what “soup to nuts” meant …. I just didn’t understand why…. . I love knowing origin stories like that. I knew that so many American sayings and slang originated with sailors a sailing industry of the 1700’s and 1800’s … like “A SQUARE MEAL” ( 3 square meals a day for example) because of the square wooded plates used on ships that slid into slats on the dining tables to prevent the plates from sliding off from the pitching motion of the ship in the water !! ( but didn’t the food slide off??)
ReplyDeleteARROW sold thousands of their antique auto systems … the majority were electric guide ….. but they were also offered in gas power. I also liked that arrow offered so many variation styles of early automobiles … even a “French Taxi” based on the famous Renault Taximeter cabs Americans and British fell in love with during WW1. They also offered several variations of modern automobiles from a “Autopia” like car to formula racing cars . There are collectors clubs for people who collect the Arrow antique and raceway cars.
Sue, that’s a very good AI pastiche, but it doesn’t quite feel like it nailed the Major’s personality. I vote he’s real (or, at the very least created by a superior LLM).
ReplyDeleteJB, I just save time and put nuts into my soup, thereby combining one of the 20 courses. I have things to do! I do know the “pulling out all the stops” reference, though I don’t think I learned it until many years into my life. Not sure what I think it meant, except perhaps to eliminate all obstacles (which sort of makes sense?). I am probably not enough of a word nerd, though I do like words. I always feel guilty when somebody refers to me as a “writer”, which I am not. At least not in the formal sense. Yes, Chuck did his Chuck thing, which is always fun! I suppose I could look up the meaning of “time is a flat circle”, but there are cartoons waiting to be watched. You understand.
ReplyDeleteLou and Sue, whoa, that’s pretty trippy. How does AI know my blog so well? Maybe none of my readers are real! Sure, I think I’ve met you, but maybe you were a robot! It feels like their example of what they think I would write takes bits and pieces from actual blog posts, though I can’t compare them specifically. I do like to call people “bub”! I gotta say though, it did a pretty good job. I’m obsolete!!
Lou and Sue, EVEN I DON’T KNOW!
\Mike Cozart, “the bitter end” is another nautical term that I originally assumed had to do with the last dregs of coffee or something like that. But nope, it has to do with ropes! It makes me sad that Arrow Development is no more, though I guess it wouldn’t have been the same without the two guys who started the company (I have the book about Arrow Development, but it’s been a minute since I read it). A “French Taxi”?? This is a family blog!
Chuck, thank you! Beep.
Gorillas Don't Blog; Come for the pictures, stay for the comments.
ReplyDeleteBrilliant thread today everyone.
This is what makes GDB wonderful, blurry photos, wistful reminiscence, relentless research, devotion to linguistic minutiae, and hovering over all, the powerful sense of 'hiraeth', the sense of longing for a place long gone and irrecoverable, even of a place that may never have existed, but should have.
Thanks Major, for bringing all this together.
JG